1. Hello!

    First of all, welcome to MapleLegends! You are currently viewing the forums as a guest, so you can only view the first post of every topic. We highly recommend registering so you can be part of our community.

    By registering to our forums you can introduce yourself and make your first friends, talk in the shoutbox, contribute, and much more!

    This process only takes a few minutes and you can always decide to lurk even after!

    - MapleLegends Administration-
  2. Experiencing disconnecting after inserting your login info? Make sure you are on the latest MapleLegends version. The current latest version is found by clicking here.
    Dismiss Notice

Skill balances for all Jobs

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by KurayamiLove, Mar 27, 2019.

  1. akashsky
    Online

    akashsky Horntail

    2,026
    844
    495
    Jun 10, 2017
    Male
    United States
    3:15 PM
    Disparity
    Corsair
    200
    Pasta

    I think warriors are good in that department. Achiles, when maxed reduces damage by 15%, so you are taking 85% damage.

    Power guard reduces this by 30%, so now you take 59.5% damage.

    Maybe DKs need some help but they have HB.
     
  2. Alyosha
    Online

    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

    917
    585
    413
    Mar 9, 2017
    3:15 PM
    Dostoevsky
    Dark Knight
    200
    Spirit
    Power Guard reduces physical damage by 40%, and I believe it's half as effective on bosses? So I believe it only reduces by 20% on them. Magic damage doesn't get reduced though.

    I believe Achilles modifies the damage first, so with that maxed warriors take 85% damage of any type at their worst, it's just a passive skill and it works everwhere. For Heroes and Paladins with Power Guard it means they take 68% of physical damage at bosses, and 51% of physical damage at regular monsters, and 85% of magic damage anywhere.

    But if they're using a shield they can also use Guardian, which is at its max a 15% chance to block damage. Does anyone know if this applies only to physical damage or is it magical damage too? The description sounds like it's only physical. So if you're hugging a boss with a shield and Guardian, max Achilles, and Power Guard, then you'd only take ~57.8% of the damage another class would receive. But then again I heard the Rush that Guardian does is balls because it can shoot Scarlion into your squishy little ranged members. Fun.

    DK's are sort of the opposite, they take more physical damage while reducing elemental damage through their 3rd job Elemental Resistance. That reduces damage by 40%, and then they get Achilles on top of that, so overall they take about 51% of elemental damage. Not every magic attack is considered elemental though, which really makes it a pain in the butt to figure out where it's helping. The ToT mobs, for example, look like they could be shooting elemental damage but in reality DK's still get hit with the ~4k near the end of questline. You'd think the mobs would use fire or ice but they don't, so the Elemental Damage is no help there. Apparently one of Horntail's attacks isn't elemental where it should be too. Personally it would be cool to replace the skill with 20% magic resistance and 20% elemental resistance. Then it would be helpful everywhere, be a bit less confusing, and it would probably stack to be 36% elemental resistance and 20% plain magic resistance. Or maybe the mobs aren't even shooting magic in the first place and it's physical damage for some reason. Honestly, I have no idea, but it could probably use a guide.
     
  3. Zooploop
    Offline

    Zooploop Master Chronos

    93
    44
    106
    Aug 15, 2018
    Male
    6:15 PM
    Crusader
    Gaurdian is basically Shifter, completely nullifies an attack, status effect and all.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Sepio61
    Offline

    Sepio61 Chronos

    82
    13
    93
    Feb 24, 2018
    Male
    United States
    5:15 PM
    Sepio16
    Hero
    183
    Winterfell
    Here are buffs I'd like to see for Buccaneers:
    - Reduce the delay for Corkscrew Blow, Double Uppercut, and Backspin Blow
    - Remove the delay for Dragon Strike
    - Increase the mob count to 5 for Corkscrew Blow and Backspin Blow.

    For Paladins, please buff the damage % for Holy Charge to make it actually useful.

    Additionally, revamping warriors' 3rd job Crash skills to remove cancels with a cool down would be helpful for boss runs. It would make bossing with Heroes and Paladins more useful.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. OP
    OP
    KurayamiLove
    Offline

    KurayamiLove Skelegon

    951
    753
    413
    Mar 15, 2015
    Male
    Nautilus
    12:15 AM
    KurayamiLove/Nagrom/Amatista
    Buccaneer
    69
    Halcyon
    akashskyakashsky DKs HP caps at 15k (and you will never be at 15k if you want to do damage, most I've been is around 14.5k) While taking elemental damage we are tanky as hell but all the bosses that do elemental damage hit you hard on other ways. Zakum ranged damage does to me 1.1k dmg but I eat the body a lot and that does from 6k to 8k (first body to the last body). HT does to me 2.9k (except that stupid icicle that does 4.4k) but when the wing flaps on your face you take 6k a bit over 7k if its buffed, and if you fall down to a head cos rush made drop down from the platform that's 14k dmg. The NLs I run with are tankier than me when I berzerk .
     
  6. OP
    OP
    KurayamiLove
    Offline

    KurayamiLove Skelegon

    951
    753
    413
    Mar 15, 2015
    Male
    Nautilus
    12:15 AM
    KurayamiLove/Nagrom/Amatista
    Buccaneer
    69
    Halcyon
    Removing the delay of dragon strike could be good for Buccaneer cleave Sepio61Sepio61 I kinda like that.
    Also beside the passive crit buff and some mob hit increase to the bucc pushing skills it would be cool if we could get rid of energy orbs (or reduce the damage lost) of the damage lost when using energy orb, that skill foes 900% not too far from dragon strike but loses half of its damage with each bounce. So if you do lets say 60k on the first hit the second would do 30k the next 15k the next 7.5k.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Siegfried
    Online

    Siegfried Chronos

    89
    31
    98
    Apr 21, 2017
    Male
    3:15 PM
    1. Reduced delay for those skills would greatly improve mobbing flow for Buccaneers and i-frame manoeuvrability; aka the entire point of the Buccaneer class. This gets partially resolved when you get Speed Infusion, but other than that, you can't do much using those combination of skills apart from Corkscrew + Somersault Kick & repeat. This would be a huge improvement for Brawlers and Marauders in terms of combo variability and play style, and not much of an improvement for Buccaneers specifically speaking.
    2. Removing the delay for Dragon Strike would be perfect if the above is implemented, since this is all for the "speed and flow" of Buccaneers.
    3. I think the current mob count for Corkscrew Blow [3] is ridiculously low and 5 still low. When we use Corkscrew, we move the mob along a wall. We're not running back to get the monsters behind, because we would disperse mobs in both directions. It also defeats the purpose of using Corkscrew's i-frames, because most of the time you would get hit if the monsters are too closely packed together, sandwiching you in the middle. That's a big no-no. If we take a look at the warrior's 4th job skill, Rush, 10 enemies are being pushed. I think 10 is a fair number, because warriors aren't a mobile class. They're meant to tank hits, and they have the HP AND skills (HB, power guard) to support it whenever you're walking back to get the monsters you missed in case you get sandwiched in. To contrast, Corkscrew's entire point is to avoid getting hit by use of i-frames, thus incorporating movement into the skill (Dragon Dancing for instance uses Corkscrew + Dragon Strike for mobbing). This means, any left over monsters is CRUCIAL to not being hit, especially at higher levels where things can kill you easily. 10 enemies hit by Rush by warriors comparatively sounds ridiculously OP, given their high HP AND unneeded attention to i-frame combo. The best way to approach this would be to tweak skill-level to enemy attacked, from 3 enemies (1sp) to 10 enemies (MAX) to match up with the warriors, with every +3 from lv1 = 1 more enemy hit.

    As for Backspin Blow, I also agree with 6 as the mob count, as it stuns and it corresponds with Dragon Strike's mob count (6 as well). As it adds stun, it would be too overpowered to bring it to 10, but 6 is fine as Backspin Blow would add as a complementary to finishing off with Dragon Strike.

    Other suggestions for Brawler class:
    Oak Barrel's chance of failure of 5% is actually still too high. I was playing around with it, and if you were to move around a room full of mobs, you're spamming that 5% chance. I broke my barrel within 3 seconds, which is basically the same thing as 10%, maybe a second more time moving around. Solution? 1%. It's a great percentage that represents the Oak Barrel's "quirky" nature and also gives the impression of the "oh sh*t what if it breaks?!" to the skill that the April Patch tried to convey. GMs feel free to test out Oak Barrel in a room chockfull of mobs and see how long it breaks. Answer: it should rarely break. If 1% is still too high, it should be tweaked to achieve that goal (since it is a spammed %; rolling the dice 1/100 every time). Realistically, I would guess a 0.5% chance of failure is adequate. I think Oak Barrel should be thought of a GOOD alternative to Dark Sight and it SHOULD be able to be used in similar circumstances with an element of risk. I'm talking about LPQ rombots, GPQ dark-sight required rooms, and other circumstances requiring Dark Sight. Again, this has to be tested and tweaked to see if Oak Barrel can successfully clear those circumstances. If it can't, well, Oak Barrel is forever a useless cosmetic skill; without doing what it was intended for as a situational skill.

    Personal Thoughts
    I think these suggestions from KurayamiLove have been really well-thought out for Buccaneers (level 200 Buccaneer and probably thousands of hours of experience!) and I agree with them as someone who has always played that class-- even as far as making guides for them in the past for other servers. As of currently, I'm a brawler but I still remember vividly how badly other servers handled Buccaneers. For now, I'll have to clear 3rd job advancement and give my thoughts on that since that's also a big point of discussion among Buccaneer players. Other than that, there are "a lot" of buffs concerning us, but Buccaneer is inherently is a very flawed class solved by various buffs introduced in later versions, so I wouldn't be surprised if it required more buffing and tweaking.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
    • Like Like x 4
  8. OP
    OP
    KurayamiLove
    Offline

    KurayamiLove Skelegon

    951
    753
    413
    Mar 15, 2015
    Male
    Nautilus
    12:15 AM
    KurayamiLove/Nagrom/Amatista
    Buccaneer
    69
    Halcyon
    I would now see that removing the delay of dragon strike could be a good option. Also I asked if the charge rate can be increased on bosses. More things that Im not sure if can be implemented, pre big bang energy blast got a buff making it not only spamable but making it able to stun. About the rushing skills I dont really know if we really need over 6mobs, Corkscrew is already the best of I.Frames but thats up to debate. Buccaneer also would need a pasive crit in a way lol but that up to gms and stuff, Buccaneer for me is slow, methodical, has control over the mobs with its vrious skills, and it has to hit hard, the big problem after big bang is that hitting hard wasnt a thing anymore, in a world where hitting cap dmg is possible (with some pay to win mechanics) only the fastest jobs stand.
    Lastly I would say buccnaeer is not as bad as ppl say and imo the job that really needs some buffs is shadower, and sadly they got nothing this update MapleF4 I really really really want assasinate to be a much better skill, Kauser94 a friend of mine did a test and he got (with se) the same damage with savage blow as assasiante (maxed) .
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Sepio61
    Offline

    Sepio61 Chronos

    82
    13
    93
    Feb 24, 2018
    Male
    United States
    5:15 PM
    Sepio16
    Hero
    183
    Winterfell
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2_711bybPA
    This is a perfect video giving a visual example of the buffs I wanted to see for Buccaneers in my previous comment under this post. For the most part I think Buccaneers are a decent and fun class to play with and the buffs they received were much needed. However, they don't need delays on some of their most important skills. Double Uppercut, Backspin Blow and Dragon Strike should all be able to be spammed. Additionally, Corkscrew Blow and Backspin Blow should be able to mob more than 3 monsters.
     
  10. OP
    OP
    KurayamiLove
    Offline

    KurayamiLove Skelegon

    951
    753
    413
    Mar 15, 2015
    Male
    Nautilus
    12:15 AM
    KurayamiLove/Nagrom/Amatista
    Buccaneer
    69
    Halcyon
    All this is post big bang hehe. One thing I think we should never reduce the delay of corkscew that what makes it so awesome, the bigger the delay the more iframes.
    Speeding up skill a bit would help a lot, on this server we got demo slightly speed up already.
    Removing the damage lost from orb would be cool too.
    Dragon strike was speed up a lot and got its delay removed so is now more spamable, no need to combo it but it would be much better I can tell.
    They also removed double uppercut delay, this could make bucc better at 1vs1 at second job altho for high lv buccs this would not matter.
    I can tell that they made barrage a bit faster but I think they pretty much killed the skill. they removed the multipliers of the last 2 hits that made it so good for damage( x2 damage on 5th and x4 on last)
    Spaming backspin or any rush skil would be unfair since rush has it too, unless we remove it as well.
    I also rmb that post big bang tranform and super transform got a str boost, super transform when amxed gave +40 str.

    I know most change could be implemented, perhaps these changes, a pasive crit and a extra charge gain would make buccaneer pretty good imo.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
  11. Siegfried
    Online

    Siegfried Chronos

    89
    31
    98
    Apr 21, 2017
    Male
    3:15 PM
    Increasing the charge rate would be useful on bosses, as we are pretty damn horrible 1v1 before 4th job. Energy blast stun is also interesting as it adds more versatility to the moveset, rather than having just backspin blow to stun. I could see why Neckson made this change, because we already have a passive stun skill and it doesn't make sense to just have only 1 skill that does it (on more than 1 enemy i.e. vs. Double Uppercut).

    As for Corkscrew hitting > 6 enemies: it sounds like "overkill" but, for lower leveled Brawlers & Marauders, it would be extremely useful simply because we train in maps where there are a tonne of enemies, most of the time 10 or more. Late-game IIRC has less than 10 mobs on a platform closely packed together (ToT & Ulu & Skelegons), so it wouldn't really matter too much for Buccaneers.

    I agree with this, you should be able to chain Double Uppercut safely with another skill like Corkscrew/Flash Fist/Sommersault kick. However, not sure about spamming Backspin Blow, as it does provide stun bonuses. I think the reason why it has a delay in the first place is to make you combo it, and not just spam it then use Dragon Strike rather than Corkscrew > Backspin > Dragon Strike.

    I completely missed that on my earlier post-- reducing delay on Corkscrew would be actually bad since the animation gives i-frames.

    I agree with the balance changes brought to lower level Buccaneers, since the entire class is shafted itself. It would make the experience more linear; spamming Flash Fist on a boss simply because you can't spam Double Uppercut is plain dumb. I don't know why we're still using 1st job skills even though we're given 2nd job skills to improve upon that.

    -- On whether Dragon Strike should have it's delay removed and spammable, I think removing it wouldn't make the improvement an overpowered one. Here's why: You can still get hurt if you use DS over and over again. You still would need to combo if you wanted to take advantage of i-frames. On the bonus side as mentioned, the delay removal would provide a nice time frame finish off your combos, say you press the button too late or too early. But again, I have yet to test this out so take it with a grain of salt.

    EDIT: I think the video comments from Sepio's post gives a good idea to what fixed/made Buccaneers better. Linearity is important is especially for our class; here's one example: If DS was spammable, then Energy Orb would be useless because it was faster than DS in casting speed. Energy Orb should be useful anyways, but I wouldn't know of a buff to be made yet

    EDIT 2: After playing around with Brawler a bit more, some things have become a lot clearer: Backspin Blow doesn't even combo, because it's too much of a delay between skills. This means you can't pull out a corkscrew for I-frame to save yourself after a Backspin Blow. BSB actively leaves you vulnerable since it relies on stunning the enemy in place-- a major flaw considering the skill only hits 3 enemies. Reducing the delay of BSB and increasing the hit count to 6 would solve both of its issues with one swoop.
    Additionally, I played around with Oak Barrel a bit more. After 10 attempts of running through mobs back and forth, I'd say it lasts on average 5 seconds, with the maximum being around 10 seconds if I'm being generous. Still not acceptable if it were used in LPQ or GPQ. And finally I haven't noticed this until now: Oak Barrel at max is 30 seconds duration. Are. You. Kidding. Me? Dark Sight lasts 200 seconds duration without a chance of failure and they get normal walking speed at maximum level.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Rockler
    Offline

    Rockler Mixed Golem

    164
    68
    161
    Jan 8, 2016
    Male
    Sweden
    12:15 AM
    Nude
    Night Lord
    200
    Scamure
    Or you play a bigbang server if you want to play buccaner, this is v62 lol.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  13. OP
    OP
    KurayamiLove
    Offline

    KurayamiLove Skelegon

    951
    753
    413
    Mar 15, 2015
    Male
    Nautilus
    12:15 AM
    KurayamiLove/Nagrom/Amatista
    Buccaneer
    69
    Halcyon
    Following that logic we shouldn't have new stuff like pink bean here or neo Tokyo o.o
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. OP
    OP
    KurayamiLove
    Offline

    KurayamiLove Skelegon

    951
    753
    413
    Mar 15, 2015
    Male
    Nautilus
    12:15 AM
    KurayamiLove/Nagrom/Amatista
    Buccaneer
    69
    Halcyon
    Backspin, as it is, is pretty good, stun quicker than any other skill you have so is good for stun mastery, also if you get knocked back int a mob you can go backward fast with it. just increasing the mob count could be good. I never saw an issue on using previous job skills, that's why buss is fun I've been using double uppercut and flash fist twice as a 1vs1 combo, I would remove the delay but still, I don't think is too bad. Marauder because of the skill it gets is a bit lackluster altho most of the skills are pretty awesome but hey we all got bad jobs kinda, like crusader is meh altho combo is a huge skill
     
  15. OP
    OP
    KurayamiLove
    Offline

    KurayamiLove Skelegon

    951
    753
    413
    Mar 15, 2015
    Male
    Nautilus
    12:15 AM
    KurayamiLove/Nagrom/Amatista
    Buccaneer
    69
    Halcyon
    Also I still concern a bit about shadowers, they are soo cool and fun yet I feel they need an improvement
     
  16. Breaklimits
    Offline

    Breaklimits King Slime

    25
    1
    31
    Feb 10, 2018
    Male
    12:15 AM
    Breaklimits
    Pirate
    24
    ornhub
    Maybe not a job balance but the fact compensating mobs like manon to spawn a bit more often in the old gms there were 20chs so plenty spawns for all open world bosses some have 12 hour spawn timers but 20chs balanced it right.
    Now since we have 6chs isnt it right to balance spawn timers a bit like 12h timers change to 8 hours and 6hours maybe to 4 hours.
    This way it still decent timer but fun to hunt. Any1 agrees or tell me your thoughts
     
  17. Precel
    Offline

    Precel Zakum Retired Staff

    1,797
    247
    460
    Nov 13, 2018
    Male
    6:15 PM
    Precel
    Priest
    100
    Spirit
    You should create a new suggestion thread, since it's off topic with this one.
     
  18. OP
    OP
    KurayamiLove
    Offline

    KurayamiLove Skelegon

    951
    753
    413
    Mar 15, 2015
    Male
    Nautilus
    12:15 AM
    KurayamiLove/Nagrom/Amatista
    Buccaneer
    69
    Halcyon
    I could just for bucc and shad Ill look into it a bit deeper.
     
  19. Precel
    Offline

    Precel Zakum Retired Staff

    1,797
    247
    460
    Nov 13, 2018
    Male
    6:15 PM
    Precel
    Priest
    100
    Spirit
    I think you misunderstood my reply. It was to someone else. (unless you weren't referring to my reply MapleF12)
     
  20. OP
    OP
    KurayamiLove
    Offline

    KurayamiLove Skelegon

    951
    753
    413
    Mar 15, 2015
    Male
    Nautilus
    12:15 AM
    KurayamiLove/Nagrom/Amatista
    Buccaneer
    69
    Halcyon
    My bad haha but it would be good to have an entire post jsut to dsicuss balances. I want to make a new one
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page