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Skill balances for all Jobs

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by KurayamiLove, Mar 27, 2019.

  1. OP
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    KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    There are jobs that are more powerful than others, I will admit that but PiitaaPiitaa don't let the meta decide what to play just have fun. Shadowers do have roles in parties, they do good sed mules, also they can cleave and give smoke screen to save up teammates that died during res, or just to make bossing a lot easier. Also, you can look at your performance and work on that, die the least you can be reliable, a good teammate then I'm sure someone will appreciate your hard work. Always look to improve yourself and be the best you can be. I know it sounds cliche but this is how you truly become good at a job and being good at a job makes you worth a while on any party hehe (as long as they don't have meta squareheads). Do your best hehe
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  2. redblueblur
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    redblueblur Mr. Anchor

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    Maybe Considerations when comparing jobs:?
    1: Buffs (NL's buff like SP/SC has a short duration, affecting comparison w corsair/bm/drk w longer buff duration like SE, notice how corsairs don't really have to manage short term buff other than booster and mounting ship mechanics and Bows have bird summons)

    2: Frequency of Damage output (NL's don't have stance, Lag = die, No stars = GG, Shorter distance thrown)

    3: HP (needless to explain; those who actually wash take hella lot of time to save NX so consider the Downtime)

    *Isn't there potions for this avoid issue?

    Drk? don't they have x2 dmg multiplier? zerk?

    Feels like NL's being targeted again, they do have pros and cons (hp) too lol. Do this and goodluck.
    Majority will quit, just saying.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  3. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    Shadow Partner lasts 3 minutes, which is just fine. Dark Knight's Hyper Body lasts 155 seconds in comparison, and it generally needs to be cast more often because it's difficult to catch the whole party in one spot. Shadow Claw being 2 minutes is alright considering how many stars it saves overall. The only real issue with it has been getting debuffed in bosses, but it's still abuseable as far as I remember with only requiring one set of the best stars with <200 remaining then stacking whatever high count stars you can get.

    If you run out of stars then you really only have yourself to blame for such an easily avoidable problem.

    Night Lords don't have stance? What exactly is Shadow Shifter if not an even better version of stance? With so much avoidability they have some of the best stance in the game. Not only that but Bowmasters have to stop using Hurricane in order to use a potion, or to reposition themselves, which happens a lot considering they can't just ignore half of the attacks that come after them. The fact that Sharp Eyes lasts 5 minutes is barely a benefit considering all the starting and stopping they have to do.

    Not even to mention Alchemist making Onyx Apples 50% longer for the class that gets the most worth out of attack boosts.

    Washing isn't much of an argument either considering other ranged classes need it just as much. Letting the biggest tryhards make you feel insecure about your HP is silly anyways, it's not nearly as much work anymore with MoN's, Pet HP scrolls, MB Ring, and a bunch of other methods to make Night Lords the easiest and highest damaging class out there.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. OP
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    KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    1.Lets see Shadow Claw has no delay, you pretty much can use it between tts with no downtime. Shadow partner still 180 seconds you can just recast it with booster every time. BM skilsl do last long but I dont think they are catching up with one of the lowesr weapon multiplier in the game. DK's HB last 155 seconds and is a party skill so you better be stop what you are doing to rebuff your party (Not manny people ask for Haste, at least on static bosses) Corsairs barl care of buffs yeah but they got other stuff worry.
    2.NL is the ranged class that stays in place the most thanks to its high avoidability and shifter, ratewise is not as good as stance but you often risk less being at range, like falling down a paltform on HT or Zakum arms, getting knonck back away from the mob and need to get back near every time you get kb away or into the boss. HP is an issue that plages every ranged job and DK when comes to melee, we all agree wash sucks but is necesary for so many jobs so many nls are INT lords and later on become so tanky, heck as a DK when I zerk most NLs are tankier than me and better sed mules, The Lag=die applies to DK a lot too or more like woops pet didnt healed and manual heal didnt worked either. Paladin and hero can get fucked up with lag if they stand on bosses doing power guard. Stars are an isse but just be ready for anything, you can get extra slots on teh cash shop and you barely use pots compared to any job at bossing thanks to NLs huge avoidability.

    What DK has:
    Zerk x2 damage if you haver 50% hp or less (that sometimes is hard to keep up and is anoying if the damage is a bit high)
    If se they get a 15% chance of doing 1.81 times their original damag
    Crushers per minute if sky ski and max speed (si): 74. any other spear: 69
    What NL has:
    Shadow partner is pretty much x1.5 damage
    Critical hit 50% chance of doing 2.33 times your regulard damage (criticals are adivite and not multiplicative)
    If SE= crits more often and crits do 3.26 times your regular damage
    attacking speed of tt: 100 a minute with no need of booster.

    NL only weakness is the fact that they are terrible mobbers and they lack HP which can be compensated with HP washing.

    All jobs have their streing and weaknesses, I never had a plan to target NL( I even sugested a change on this post to make them even better at dealing damage asking one skill to go thru cancels) I was just saying facts like they are the best single target attackers in the entire game, like mages are the best mobbers in the game due to their skills. In fact I would say they are the oposite when comes to single target and mobbing damage.
    I love all jobs.... but beguiner Im sorry I like to job advance
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
  5. OP
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    KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    Oh yeah forgot alchemist lol, not only apples bears too and for some reason HT buff o.o . I got a NL and im so paranoid that the run will fail in a way tha I will have to stay the longest that I have 32 sets in total and still got room for att pots and healing pots, also I wlays recharge my stars b4 every run (Serisuly Im so paranoid no matter what run I bring I bring pots specting me to solo the thing cos ppl are going to die )
     
  6. firesarrow
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    firesarrow Chronos

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    I'd also vote for marksman's piercing arrow to not disable after being hit by a mob. Please :cat::cat::cat::mooning:
     
  7. OP
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    KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    You mean as you charge if you get hit the charge is canceled?
     
  8. Lidas
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    Lidas Mixed Golem

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    It will be nice if staff make dps chart, so we know for sure which classes we think need to be changed. Like i know bm should be close to nl dps but by my calculation there is almost 25%+ gap (without nl stance in count). And by feel its the same as heros.
    Will be nice to have the exact numbers.
    Like dps on 1. Dps on mobs.
     
  9. OP
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    I dont think is up to the GMs to make a chart, if we want one we need to make it ourselves. Damage is not everything and I think there are different ways to deal damage, let me explain. A job like bishop has somewhat low damage output (somewhat because when comes to cleave they do pretty good damage) but damage is not what make them special, support is. For that reason I thought to make DK not as strong or stronger than hero or paladin just because of HB, but cos of all the support comes down to HB they need to be close on damage.
    Now the different ways of doing damage, some are good at 1vs1 others are good at cleave, so altho jobs like warriors, shadower or buccaneer are far from the damage that a NL could do their cleave could compensate for that, Cleave atm only comes handy at HT and zak arms but dem it is OP. Mages on cleave are very strong altho they lack 1vs1 damage, but they dont deserve to do that much 1vs1 damage since they mob way too good (altho I wanted em to do a bit more).
    Also calculating 1vs1 damage is kinda hard since you need to have in account too the funding of the person, when I was figuring out the perfect speed of crusher I realiced if I wanted it to be closer to brandish speed (680ms cap speed) I discovered because of the multiplier DKs was always stronger on damage unless the hero was godlike funding.
    For now the GMs works is to debate and think about the feedback we give them hehe is up to us to do the rest :)
     
  10. OP
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    Also I would say BM is very close to damage to NL when comes to solo damage, only at high fundng and/or level matter NL would end up wining cos of the multipliers. An that would have into account not getting hit so if you get hit you lose the race. Add se and you always lose but I think is ok I dont think we need to make all jobs as broken as NL when comes to 1vs1 dmg output. I like more give small changes that give quality of life.. like that one I remeber to make shadower so much better with a small change, making boomerang available in the air, will alway love that change simplicity and effectivenes *-*
     
  11. Lidas
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    Lidas Mixed Golem

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    I think that first we need to see if change is needed. By looking at dps (1 target and mobs as i said) it will give much more information.
    For example like you said if cleavers dmg
    Is higher on mobs they will lose on 1v1 to ranged. But what do you think the gap should be? 50%? 30%?
    And obviously we take into account party skills. And support roll.

    The way i would compare it is with perfect equips.at level 200/150. So it will take into acount all the classes pros and cons. (Weapon speed/atk. Arm stats..).and Im looking at high levels because its the main part of the game.
    Because players dont have all the tools to do it. I think staff need to.
    If players have equips and want to help its great too, but i will trust staff more.
     
  12. OP
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    KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    Even at higher lvs funding is a big deal, weapons with bigger multipliers require less funding to be better than the ones with lower multipliers. Yeah you could do the optimal table with those rules myself hehe when I get some time. But I think this would be another subject here on this post I jst ask for small buffs that may make jobs a bit better. But I like your idea, jsut when i get time ill do it
     
  13. Fraiche
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    Fraiche Pac Pinky Retired Staff

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    I'm sure it's not a remotely game-breaking change but buff Meteor slightly, because Blizzard's freeze mechanic is far more useful than the teeny bit higher dmg from Meteor

    Edit: I often fantasize that Meditation gives % MATK buff instead of fixed 20 :hungry:
     
  14. OP
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    It may not be that much of a change but I don't think a class that easily kills an entire map really needs even more damage. Freezing is ok at lower levels but at the end of the day what counts is how many hits it takes you to kill anything
     
  15. Lidas
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    Lidas Mixed Golem

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    its the same case with bm and mm,with fire and ice arrows(3rd job). while sniper can freez mobs the ranger fire arrow is weaker than bomb arrow (2nd job skill)
     
  16. OP
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    I thought of suggesting a buff on that but I think arrow rain needs to be the best skill you ever use when comes to mobbing. I thought the ice arrows do less %.
     
  17. Selquin
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    Selquin Headless Horseman

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    I don't have exact numbers, but I don't think the gap is that big under ideal conditions. From personal experience comparing to comparably funded endgame NL's, the dpm gap should be closer to 10-15% (assuming perfect conditions). If you take into account shifter/avoid 25% sounds about right.
     
  18. OP
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    I'm not sure how to make an accurate dpm chart when comes to all jobs, the best way to get it is by getting the perf weapon guys to dpm on different scenarios. Under ideal I know from experience that BM does a lot (I take this from anego) same with corsair tho, I think im a bit better funded on my nl than my corsair friend and he still whited me on the first two bodies of scar, but third it started to do damage and I was doing more o.o.
     
  19. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    What makes Blizzard less dpm than Arrow Eruption is the fact that the elemental skills are unable to crit. I'm fairly sure Inferno is the same, it can't crit, so Arrow Rain is vastly superior, and the crit damage is higher than whatever fire damage is done.

    Blizzard is more for utility, you use it to freeze all the mobs in front of you for Piercing Arrow/Arrow Eruption/Strafe/Snipe.

    Also why are there two skills named Blizzard? The Sniper skill is called Blizzard and the Arch Mage map kill is also called Blizzard. MapleF3
     
  20. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    I might be able to help make a DPM chart for some jobs (but not jobs like bucc, shad, or MM since I don't know how to account for multiple skills). But if the class just spams 1 attack I can definitely make one.

    All I need would be total Main stat, total secondary stat, and total weapon attack (including attack potions i guess) for that class. Basically a sum of the list of gear you would think is fair or standard for comparing the dpm.
     

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