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Skill balances for all Jobs

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by KurayamiLove, Mar 27, 2019.

  1. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    Mar 9, 2017
    5:11 PM
    Dostoevsky
    Dark Knight
    200
    Spirit
    Time to revive this thread? It is one of my favorites. SlimeSmile

    I believe that the biggest discrepancy between Night Lords and the other ranged classes like Bowmasters, Marksmen, and Corsairs is the hefty avoid and the stance that it offers. There have been a number of buffs to ranged character's skills but part of the issue lies in how often they need to fix their characters, they are strong they just need to be able to use that strength properly.

    Testing damage against the dummies in ideal conditions paints a very balanced picture, one that seems to point to all of the ranged classes being similar in damage output. And yet the performance in bosses will generally tend to give the advantage to Night Lords in most cases, and they tend to reap the lion's share of the experience without a clear gap between levels or gear. Because of Shadow Shifter and the higher amounts of avoid given by luk as their primary stat Night Lords have a large advantage in bossing in their ability to continue sending damage out uninterrupted. The lessened need for them to correct course and fix their character's position leads to them losing less time overall in comparison to other ranged attackers. So overall the damage Night Lords can deal is overall closer to the ideal damage against the dummies

    Corsairs are definitely the worst of the bunch for avoid, no matter how hard they push for dex their avoid will always be paltry in comparison to the other classes. On AyumiLove we have the formulas for calculating avoid:

    Base Avoid:
    Warriors/Magicians/Bowmen/Thieves/Beginners = DEX * 0.25 + LUK * 0.5
    Pirates = DEX * 0.25 + LUK * 0.5
    Brawlers = DEX * 1.5 + LUK * 0.5
    Gunslingers = DEX * 0.125 + LUK * 0.5

    Corsairs could have their dex value doubled to put it in line with the other classes. It just seems a bit odd that it is so undervalued specifically for them. A level 200 Corsair probably only has around 200 avoid after gear and skills are factored in, which is very mediocre for a ranged class and just barely better than warriors. It looks especially bad when you consider that a buccaneer who is attempting to minimize their dex could easily have more avoid. 1200 dex on a corsair is worth less than 110 dex on a buccaneer when it comes to avoid.

    Bowmasters and Marksmen could probably use a smaller buff but it would still be a welcome one. I don't like the idea of the avoid formula straying too far from the basics, it's much simpler when it's uniform, but there are some skills that could offer avoid as well. The skills Marksmen Boost and Bow Expert could have avoid added onto them, perhaps 50-60 total for an end game boost, and perhaps 20 more could be added on to the second job skills Bow Mastery and Crossbow Mastery as well.

    I think these buffs would lessen the discrepancy between testing dummy damage vs. damage dealt to a boss. It's about helping bring out their true potential. Bigger numbers are cool and all but so is whiting bosses.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. redblueblur
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    redblueblur Mr. Anchor

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    Dec 18, 2017
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    8:11 AM
    Z00M
    Beginner
    10
    before we move onto buffs for classes, are there currently any other solution to this problem stated?
    Maybe Avoidability Potions?
     
  3. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    5:11 PM
    Disparity
    Corsair
    200
    Pasta
    I agree with everything you said, except the part about it being the biggest discrepancy. The real reason nightlords are so much better than every other class is because of alchemist. When it comes to practical use, you cannot afford to use expensive attack potions during the entire run, or if you do, its stupid because you end up losing mesos from the boss run overall. As a result, nightlords have basically have a huge advantage when it comes to the use of mid tier attack pots (stews, heartstoppers) and an extreme advantage when it comes to the use of onxy apples.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. Lidas
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    Lidas Mixed Golem

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    Sep 14, 2017
    Male
    3:11 AM
    Lidas
    Bowmaster
    138
    Or another idea, give str stat effect on defence and hp. In the thought that str give endurance. And finaly all 4 stats get hidden ability.

    They will still get hit and need to move but they will have to pot less, at least when fighting normal mobs. Unless we buff them to semi warrior for bosses too.

    I like the avoidability ideas too. I like them more in the form of a party skill for thief like suggested.

    Anyway just another idea that go with the theme of the game.
    NL damage, avoidability mobility. They are just the best at everything.
     
  5. ColouredNote
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    ColouredNote Pink Teddy

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    Sep 17, 2018
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    1:11 AM
    -
    Warrior
    19
    -
    Mages (not exactly good bossers, but they are not really supposed to be).
    • Magic Claw is used from 1st job through early third job. The skill is not all that strong. Was thinking it could hit 2 monsters or have a damage increase.
    • Thunder Spear is strong alright, but has a slow casting animation and is not all that good for bossing or single target fighting. Increasing its attack speed would be nice.

    Hunters
    • All their skills are fine, don't think they need any sort of buff at all.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  6. Fishy
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    Fishy Skelegon Retired Staff

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    5:11 PM
    Eiji
    Dark Knight
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    Beaters
    heartstoppers gives 60 avoid for 1minute.
    bless gives 20 avoid.
    There would have to be another potion that lasts longer for it to be possible, but cannot think of any atm
     
  7. Lidas
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    Lidas Mixed Golem

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    3:11 AM
    Lidas
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    if its potion only for archer and pirate than maybe, but im not sure if its posible. Remember we want balance, so we cant give NL more avoidability.
     
  8. redblueblur
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    redblueblur Mr. Anchor

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    8:11 AM
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    Non-Thief class quest (repeatable daily - untradable) doable via Job Npc.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. OP
    OP
    KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    Mar 15, 2015
    Male
    Nautilus
    2:11 AM
    KurayamiLove/Nagrom/Amatista
    Buccaneer
    69
    Halcyon
    I think corsair kinda got a shitty avoid formula, my bucc always beat any corsair that is at my lv on avoid. I would make corsair avoidability formula match the rest of the jobs (leaving bucc avoids formula intact tho) so they can perhaps avoid a bit more. I don't think that will fix any issue since only thieves can depend on avoiding attacks, just because their avoidability is easily over 600 and have shifter 30% ( 40% for shadowers) . Bowmen can avoid decently I think at high lvs they have around 400 but is not reliable and that's the problem. They do not have stance or shifter or i frames anything to keep the dps going under fire. Archer still pretty deals good damage and their support is huge with SE. Corsair damage is pretty awesome too just between the ships hp management and being hit all the time keep em bellow nl (if they avoided a lot they would be too op).
    All this text to say if you are no thief avoidability is pretty much a useless stat that perhaps can help you at times bust most likely it won't. atm we need an assassinate fix
     
  10. Lidas
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    Lidas Mixed Golem

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    3:11 AM
    Lidas
    Bowmaster
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    Because archer mobility is very bad (or to be accurate they the only class without mobility skill), and on top of that they also cant jump and attack, i suggest to make their range of attack longer.
    Im not sure how hard coded it is though.
    And it might need some test to see if its not broken.
     
  11. OP
    OP
    KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    Nautilus
    2:11 AM
    KurayamiLove/Nagrom/Amatista
    Buccaneer
    69
    Halcyon
    More than mobility I think is the lack of stance like skills like stance,charge or shifter. Also I hate how big is his melee range
     
  12. Jaewonnie
    Online

    Jaewonnie Capt. Latanica

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    Apr 21, 2020
    Crimsonwood Mountain: Cavern of Pain
    8:11 PM
    PAWGChamp
    Buccaneer
    Sorry for reviving an old thread but I wish Shining ray on Priest had the same range as Ice Strike and Explosion on Mages. This wouldn't increase dps and in my opinion is just a quality-of-life improvement for priests. It never made sense to me why shining ray doesn't behave like its mage analogs.
     

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