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Gach hoarders are ruining your ws prices!

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by mjk, Nov 25, 2021.

  1. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    I think a solution for those who hoard gach in hopes for higher future legendary rate can be different series of gach every new patch. If in 2021 w/ 20% players at/approaching endgame and 2022 w/ 30% at/approaching endgame, we can have different series of gach to readjust rates without worrying about existing gach supply.

    As skarm mentioned earlier, some guidance from staff is also helpful - as long as staff is transparent. Many of us long term players are aware of the various changes made in secrecy.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  2. zeroxlr
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    zeroxlr Windraider

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    Maybe!

    Mmm maybe a better option could possibility be an access to a shorter list of rares + legendary gacha without all the trash ones that people toss out anyways.

    25 to 50 commons trade in for 1 rare gacha

    Could be a good exchange rate
     
  3. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    A shorter list compounds on the difficulty of off-meta builds such as bw and axe variants. Rares already strips out much of the trash such as potions and throwing stars & cash items.

    Btw, EV of 20 common gach >>>>> 1 rare gach - unfortunately if such a system is implemented it may be dead on arrival. Even 4 common gach is prob > 1 rare - and ratio might change some time in the future depending on future scroll prices.
     
  4. zeroxlr
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    zeroxlr Windraider

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    I see… what are some other good options for gacha usage incentives? Other than exchange.
     
  5. shck
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    shck Timer Retired Staff

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    what if farmers constantly ran out of space to hold gacha tickets? let's move gach to use tab

    EDIT: in case original post seems like a troll:
    being able to stack gach ticket was a great/welcomed change & would be a shame to revert it.
    moving gach tickets to Use or even ETC tab would preserve the stackable gach ticket while potentially solving the issue in OP.
    instead of not allowing people to hoard gach tickets, make it not/less feasible such that people gravitate towards spending tickets in small amounts to reduce cluttering in essential inventory tabs.
     
    • Creative Creative x 3
  6. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    I feel like that wouldn't have enough of an impact since most farmers generally compartmentalize and dedicate certain characters for specific purposes (farming vs bossing). It'd only serve to hurt the people who don't normally farm while doing little to nothing for those who are probably the bigger hoarders over all.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. HeartOfGold
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    HeartOfGold Red Snail

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    Bad luck prevention. Similar to how League of Legends guarantees a gemstone after 50 dry chest boxes, why not guarantee a legendary item on the 100th pull if we don't get the yellow text after cashing in 99 consecutive gacha? XD
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  8. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    This is interesting, cus pity systems are great in general, but also cus I didn't know LoL guaranteed gemstones :eek: I feel like I've opened plenty but still have never gotten a single one but I guess I just never hit pity. Though, I do fear that this doesn't change the hoarding issue as for games with pity (looks at genshin) people still just hoard a bunch of rolls until they want to roll everything at one go.

    As much as transparency and an absolute guarantee that things won't change would be nice (since stability in a market is always desired), I fear that it's something that's a bit hard to adhere to (just from like my initial thoughts on it). The few times we have adjusted gacha from the top of my head was because of dwindling population base or an exploding population base, both of which are things that we can't really predict. Meaning the changes were reactionary. Being transparent and giving a forewarning that we're going to adjust rates like a month or so down the line, will result in either:
    A) hoarding if the changed rates are better, or
    B) offloading everything before the new changes are implemented

    If we guarantee that we're never going to touch gach rates, then in cases of unforeseen explosion or decrease in playerbase, we lose that flexibility to increase/decrease the supply of some of the gacha-restricted or heavily gacha-reliant items & scrolls as a counter measure.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. Cerulean
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    Cerulean Brown Teddy

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    1. You can adjust supply of those items by, e.g., changing gach drop rates. This would have much smaller perverse effects than changing gach pull rates, as the latter will cause players to hord tickets (if they believe pull rates will, or even might, go up).
    2. More broadly, this suggests a major downside of having certain items only obtainable through gach, and there is no reason this should be a system that we are resigned to
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  10. Jaewonnie
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    Jaewonnie Capt. Latanica

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    CS from drum bunnies pls. Very nostalgic
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. shck
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    upload_2021-11-30_10-45-25.png
    yes we want nostalgia
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. Gurk
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    CS dropping from HT and Zak, the bossing buffs we need!
    OnionF2
     
  13. Eldric
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    Eldric Slime

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    I have not read all the replies to this thread but I think the idea that gach hoarding hurts the economy is wrong. Assuming that the chances of pulling good items from each Gach is independent of each other (i.e using many gach at 1 go does not actually raise your odds of getting WS/CS). *conspiracy noises*

    If you implement your recommended changes then people would simply use their gach, keep their loot in mules somewhere until the price reaches their desired level. So players simply modify their behaviour to adapt to the rule change and eventually we return to the status quo.
     
    • Like Like x 1
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  14. zeroxlr
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    zeroxlr Windraider

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    Maybe indirectly. There’s no direct causation of hoarded gacha hurting the economy, even though there’s correlation between gacha items seeming to be in low supply.

    One form of direct cause of some price inflations has been noted by staff and older players to be people who buy out the market for a few hot items and sell high.
    • Of course it may not change the overall economy.
    Although some old ones are caught or burned out from rapid deflation, there could be new ones that are not.

    Only current staff has those data:
    • Numbers for gacha in circulation vs gacha items from rolls then sold/trashed.
    • Numbers for people who buy out items over a period of time without scrolling/dropping/reselling/trading
    Interestingly side note: few players use WS/CS as currency, since there’s a hard cap for mesos per character.

    Also yes, Storage Mules/accounts are easy for most players to make.
     
  15. zeroxlr
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    zeroxlr Windraider

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    Another option… NiseNise

    Allow all mobs to instead of just dropping gacha tickets:
    • Drop gacha items to “pre/system roll gacha tickets” as if the player rolled already.
    • Pre/system-roll gacha tickets for the player in the back end calculations, then mobs drop those gacha items.
    So less tickets, and some pre-rolled gacha items drop instead.
    • Also start Expiry/Low Stacks/Less Ticket Drops
    Seems like a good trade-off to reduce gacha ticket hoarding, while putting equivalent amount of pre/system-rolled gacha items into the market.
    • Expiry/less ticket drops, could make inflation worse, if people forget to use hard earned tickets.
    If enact expiry/low stacks/less ticket drops at the same time as Pre/system-rolling mob gacha item drops, then the total possible rewards of the ML population are maintained in circulation.
     
  16. Camazotz
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    Camazotz Chronos

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    Even if you are unable to hold on to the gach tickets you could just hold on to the white scrolls and it would make no difference.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  17. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    It amuses me how many people cannot conceptualize this problem using simple Venn diagrams.
    • Gach hoarders
    • Non-Gach hoarders
    • WS/CS hoarders
    • Non-WS/CS hoarders
    There is an overlap for gach hoarders that do not hoard ws/cs, and that is an area we can improve upon by removing gach hoarding altogether.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  18. zeroxlr
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    zeroxlr Windraider

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    FC81A20B-4640-4A26-9298-87C73C8EE10B.jpeg

    Although this could be a certain perspective of the issue, since all graphs show different things.

    A Weighted Venn Diagram Graph would more accurately show the true issue and correlation between the different types of hoarders/non hoarders on the Market inflation problem.
    86DE4993-CD30-46D2-8655-1154A3416CB2.png

    Since the data is only on the server and seen by staff, only they would be able to study the affects on if certain hoarders or non hoarders are affecting the economy.

    If we’re to describe market inflation, then direct manipulators need to be added into the graph too.

    So there’d be 5 categories instead of 4.
    1. WS/CS hoarder
    2. Gacha hoarder
    3. Non WS/CS hoarding
    4. Non Gacha hoarding
    5. Direct Manipulators
     
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  19. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Needs a small correction to your picture, since one person cannot both be a gach hoarder and not a gach hoarder, likewise with WS/CS hoarder and not WS/CS hoarder

    upload_2021-11-30_14-49-28.png
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
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  20. zeroxlr
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    zeroxlr Windraider

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    :heart:

    Exactly, since weight venn diagrams and different overlaps.

    Also it’d be nice to actually have the server data to be more accurate with how to better portray the issue.

    Another method would be to calculate the actual weight of R-Squared, and Beta and Alpha correlations of inflation vs hoarding added to those venn graphs.

    if we can see the actual statistical analysis, then a more targeted fix can be implemented.
     

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