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Information September 2023 Balance Changes [Explained]

Discussion in 'Update Notes' started by Nise, Sep 11, 2023.

  1. Daydreamer
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    Daydreamer Headless Horseman

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    I was under the impression that DK mains were regularly using roar to farm similar to how mages use their ults since that's how I have always played the class. If that's not the case, though, then I suppose it does make sense.
     
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  2. Daydreamer
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    Daydreamer Headless Horseman

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    I'm of the opinion that the direction the server is headed in the long term is towards shutting out all options of play besides bossing, multi-client farming, and single-client (or duo client) leech-selling. I hope I'm wrong but I don't see any alternative as long as multi-client is allowed.
     
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  3. Daydreamer
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    Daydreamer Headless Horseman

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    Why would that be odd? I don't have a DK (yet) on this server but on other servers including GMS that was my go to for farming drops.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. kiwiz
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    kiwiz Skelegon

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    It seems that if your "main" character excels in multi-farming, they are likely to become the target of balance changes. It can be frustrating when these changes are explained that the skill is still functioning as intended in a certain way, in the case of Dragon Roar, dictating how players should play a character.

    If a balance adjustment is made to the Boomerang Step’s drop rate, or any other multi-hit skills that I’m unfamiliar with, the rationale might be that it is still efficiently hitting multiple mobs anyway, thus not affecting your performance as a "main".

    Personally, I’m not against multi-clienting and the efforts players put into optimizing their character infrastructure for farming. While I'm not entirely sure how accessible these methods are, it's worth noting that leeching initially made many of these strategies feasible within a reasonable timeframe.

    I'm playing casually and limiting myself to the available in-game content by choice, even if it might seem like a disadvantage, I wouldn’t mind. However, I'm not pleased with the possibility of these limitations being further reduced due to extreme cases of gains, then tell you that if you play it a certain way, it's still working as intended.
     
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  5. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    whack-a-cow
     
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  6. OP
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    Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Quick thought experiment, if we were to do what we did with mages (non-ultimates) for all classes besides for full map attacks, would players be for? against? that type of change? Just some things you can consider now that we have more flexibility/lee-way for changes like these~

    ^ question not reflective of staff opinons/discussions
     
  7. Jafel
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    Jafel Capt. Latanica

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    Could you elaborate? This is very vaguely worded
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  8. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    imo as long as there is transparency and predictability there's no problem. surprises are typically bad and people build it into their expectations.
     
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  9. Sloppy
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    Sloppy Horny Mushroom

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    I've had DK as my main for majority of servers I've played and in GMS. Through third job I always used roar heavily for training as well as farming in order to be able to fund playing the class from the get go. I don't think its odd and if done right personally found it more optimal when just straight grinding. I personally think it's kind of wack nerfing it but from a extremely brief test a DK *might* be breaking even training with it now though it'd make it harder unfunded.
    Seems to hurt new players IMO and I don't think it deserves the nerf, but it doesn't make the class unplayable.

    By far this server is the most Multi-Client and Mule geared private server I personally have played on. Definitely a good server but I always thought hardcore multi-clienting and having mules for everything is very game breaking and counter productive towards team/party playing. Granted I'm nowhere near late game on this server and play casual so eh.
     
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  10. Tarnished
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    Tarnished Pac Pinky

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    Not that I disagree with what had to be done, or have any viable suggestions, but IMO drop rate nerfs feel terrible. They aren't transparent, and players are getting punished for using their class's abilities which seems very arbitrary. In an ideal world, nobody should have to ask "if I farm ABC can I use XYZ skill"

    A second concern is that the general pattern in ML seems to be that gear is becoming increasingly hard to produce. Methods of farming keep getting nerfed because of multi-client abuse, which is reasonable, but there have not been many alternatives added to replace that production for a single-client player. A new DK now has to work so much harder: pot costs went up and now roar was gutted, but it's not like he gained any new methods of farming - whatever goals he had are just further away now.

    My hope is the BT can come up with some kind of soft-scale on what is an acceptable rate of production, and work with the community to move the game towards that state. I.E. "~80m/hr is the most you should be generating anywhere doing any activity; 5m/hr is the minimum" - this way everyone can make a better informed decision on how much effort:reward they want to commit, without fear of nerfs or breaking the economy. End-game players are the most invested in keeping the economy healthy, but hiding rates and nerfing skills is not building a lot of trust between them and staff.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2023
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  11. Lin
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    Lin Headless Horseman

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    Greetings, my friend Danger and i sat down to talk about the Balance changes, this is a different format to the usual Legends News, and he's talking mostly, i just sit and nod MapleF8

     
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  12. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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  13. Lin
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    Lin Headless Horseman

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  14. CaptainNemo
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    CaptainNemo Selkie Jr.

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    I'm curious to see how "hurt" newer players are by the change. DRoar, for the most part, had an insanely over-tuned drop rate, which is evident with monster card farming numbers. Matching similar drop rates to mage ults just makes sense. It's not like your damage got gutted, so you can still grind using it if you want to. If cost is an issue, you can always find a priest to party with to mitigate your HP pot cost to make complaints about that moot.
     
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  15. Soblet
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    Soblet Zakum

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    It's similar to meso bombing on a chief bandit then where you can sacrifice meso gain for better eph.
     
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  16. kiwiz
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    kiwiz Skelegon

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    Words like "average," "higher," "comparable," and "slightly" lack meaning without specific numerical values for comparison.
    I don't mind reading even 20 pages of how the drop rate works. It feels like decisions are being made for us, assuming we wouldn't want to read a full page of explanation.

    Is there any information available that even partially reveals the drop rate, other than the vague comparisons among Mage Ulti, Roar, and Aerial Strike?

    Some players seem upset about what appears to be an intentional withholding of information. Providing closure on this matter would allow players to make informed decisions instead of wasting time speculating on the viability of unknown changes.

    The balance changes seem to acknowledge that multi-client is a problem, but the solutions are addressing more on the outcomes rather than the cause. Personally, I don't have an issue with multi-clienting, and if it enables players to earn 100mil mesos per hour, that's fine by me; I'm just sharing my observations.
     
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  17. ChlorinePurp
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    ChlorinePurp Red Snail

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    I feel since a majority of farming for non-mage classes comes from 1st-3rd job until bossing (shad a very special case who can't farm until late game) I feel this kind of buffing would alleviate the issues for normal players. But there's always that one guy who would and could break the "system" and just does a sweat farm. A big matter of would the team care about that one guy more than the other players?
     
  18. icymcspicy
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    icymcspicy Slime

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    Not sure what the server overview data of the economy would consist of but the roar nerf based on the reasons given are confusing.

    Would’ve liked to hear reasons for nerf with reference to the state of the economy. Same amount of meso chasing lesser goods now after nerf. Everything is theoretically gonna cost more. Server is kinda harsh to newer players already. Pot cost increases and whatnot.

    Unless the buff to mages less their fma’s is somehow supposed to compensate for the loss in production from drk farmers?

    Then what are the tradeoffs for mages using their 3rd job aoe/chain lightning to farm vs their FMAs? Some transparency or overall simplification/standardisation of how attacks corresponds to drop rates would be nice.

    Like others have mentioned, really doesn’t feel nice having to ask if attack abc is the correct way of farming xyz.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2023
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  19. Esmo
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    Esmo Pac Pinky

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    Glad I left this server and in general the game long ago , keep bashing the NL class , small pp balance team
     
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  20. Nightz
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    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Must be hard to truly let the game go
     
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