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Information [Alpha Test] Challenges System - HP Wash Alternative

Discussion in 'Update Notes' started by xiaoyaoz, Oct 9, 2022.

  1. epz
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    epz Mano

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    11:31 PM
    eddz
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    This change is awesome! Wish it was here before I started my light / poor HP washing journey (sinking money into int equips and adding base int).

    Just aggregating a bunch of what people have said on this topic:
    - "I do agree with the suggestion of giving people mid wash some option other than needing to personally reset all their stats. I think that could turn out to be a very time consuming and daunting task for some people. Maybe it's easier said than done though."
    - "there should be another solution for people hwo are in mid washing phase than putting all ap points back from hp..."
    - "Please do something for people that have invested on HP washing, but did it late or not optimally, and have not reached the specified thresholds. Having to vote for months just to remove the allocated HP would be awful."
    - "So if someone has not reached the threshold, but has already invested hundreds of thousands of NX on HP washing unoptimally, now they need to continue buy AP resets to reset their HP pool."

    Theoretically if nothing is changed, the above does help voting drop-off in the short-term, but at the expense of this "middle-class" group of players (not fully new, but not rich late-game / fully washed). Sadly I don't have a brilliant solution to this problem, but figured I'd point it out. I'm sure y'all are thinking about a clever way to address it already!
     
  2. kiwiz
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    kiwiz Skelegon

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    2:31 PM
    I am a casual player and at no point am I able to commit 1-2 hours fully to the game. So my request is to not have any challenge be limited to just killing bosses. I don’t mind killing 100,000 mobs as an alternative like how we get to choose between mobs or boss for summer raffle quest.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. iPippy
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    iPippy Nightshadow

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    I dont think anything needs to be done for these people stuck in the "halfway" of removing int. Unless they intend to fully stop voting, all nx from washing would get redirected to removing the int (a step that would have needed to be taken anyways). The process is already looking to insanely easier, yet we're just finding the next thing to complain about. There have been much less beneficial changes that have cost players more time/nx.

    If we really must let washing players have it their way, I'd suggest turning any points in int back into fresh ap for non-mages when the "deal" is taken. The points can't be placed into hp/mp anymore, so there's no need to worry about giving fresh points. But it's also a problem that will fix itself. This game can, in fact, still be played with a bit of int in the meantime.
     
    • Agree Agree x 14
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Authoxic
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    Authoxic Red Snail

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    Authoxic
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    This sounds amazing! I'm removing INT out of my old Shadower now since ill get more base HP with this method that washing till 180 at this point. I do have tons of INT on my BM, any way we could get an INT reset for those chars with150-300 INT?
     
  5. epz
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    epz Mano

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    Hmm, I might have misunderstood the proposal but I thought these characters would need to first AP Reset all of the added HP thus far before they're eligible (and then wash out the INT, which agreed would happen anyways). So it would be more than "all nx from washing" being redirected.

    Agreed!
     
  6. xDarkomantis
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    xDarkomantis Mushmom

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    2:31 AM
    The proposed system seems decent. There's two things I do want to say:

    1. Don't punish people who washed(veterans)/in process of washing. They were following the meta of the server that the Staff has left unchecked for numerous years (and only now adding alt HP gain separate from APR washing). All players should be able to get benefit from the alt HP gain even if its reduced by half or so for people who are already past the threshold/washed to high amounts of HP.

    2. Shadowers should have same HP growth as Ranged attackers. While the argument can be made that they have Meso Guard and therefore have double HP, the fact is that they're at risk being in melee range and prone to dispels. I wouldn't mind if Shads just had to do more in challenges to get the same HP growth.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  7. Camazotz
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    Camazotz Chronos

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    Camazotz, AoKuang, Heimdallr
    Dark Knight, Marksman, Shadower
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    My only feedback is that 12k HP for a ranged attacker at lv180 seems pretty low... Even I have more than that and I had 0 base int until lv70 (archer)
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  8. shck
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    shck Timer Retired Staff

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    And 19k (20,040 in fact) excl. HP equips for Buccs seems pretty high.

    EDIT: Buccs can realistically do PB without HB at 20,040 base HP if you include all possible HP equips. At 600 w.def I take 21.6k ~ 22.8k touch damage from PB, and that value (600 w.def) can be still further increased.
    Not sure if that is something that was accounted for, but if this goes through with values unchanged, I hope Buccs get a nerf somewhere else in the same patch when this is released.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. iPippy
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    iPippy Nightshadow

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    I do believe you are reading it differently. The "no points in hp/mp" doesn't mean have done no washing at all. Instead it means "don't have any points bloodwashed in hp/mp". If you use a reset and it doesn't let you take a point out of hp/mp, you're good to go!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Mirrors
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    Mirrors Game Moderator Staff Member Game Moderator

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    11:31 PM
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    I addressed this in the previous page, but you do not have to reset out all the HP you got from HP washing. You can keep that. You just need to reset any active AP points you have in Hp/Mp back into your main stat. (Usually just 1 point if you're washing normally)
     
  11. epz
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    epz Mano

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    Oops, sorry for misunderstanding. Thanks (and thanks iPippy) for clarifying! Seems pretty fair.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  12. LilYungBear
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    LilYungBear Blue Snail

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    LilYungLord
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    This sounds like a great idea!! From my perspective there is significantly more upside to player engagement/retention than there is downside.

    On the upside:
    1. less high INT chars you have to leech to bossing levels
    2. less time-gate to play characters you want
    3. no more inflated market for INT equips
    4. you can play any class at low levels as they were intended without high INT/low damage. (More people can PQ, grind, etc = more engagement!)
    5. this definitely opens the game up to making/trying all the chars you've wanted to. I can finally try archers/sairs without having to worry about saving up NX and leeching!

    The only significant downside I see is the potential drop off in voting for ML... which would really suck if we dropped in rankings due to such a great balance update... which could mean less new players :( I won't stop voting though!

    My only question is - is there any chance that this system does NOT get implemented? As it stands, I think this update would be great, and I'm already considering washing out all my INT in my NL before this update even rolls out.

    Challenge suggestions:
    1. I liked the previously suggested revamped PQ's for higher levels (this sounds like fun!) and the bossing X amount of times
    2. Defeat a boss with a party of only chars in the same class as you
    3. Maybe a challenge for the higher levels - defeat X number of bosses with at least 2 level 140 or below chars in your party. (level should be close to the min level needed for boss) I do think mages should have alternatives to these challenges... could be a pain to complete for mages.
    (not even sure if these suggestions are even trackable... :) )
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. RegalStar
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    RegalStar Nightshadow

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    DrKs need to have their 18750 HP very early like at level 140, otherwise this is pointless for them

    Other warriors and buccs don't need that much HP to survive with HB. Buccs need about 16k at most and Hero/Pally need like 14k at most (although I guess them having less HP than buccs would be weird)

    I'd like to see an extra tier at level 200 (or better yet, scales with level to include levelup HP) but it's not a dealbreaker

    Otherwise this looks fine
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  14. CreamPuffDad
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    CreamPuffDad Timer

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    If your BM hasn't hit the threshold stated above, then yea it sounds like it can do the challenges.
     
  15. Trion
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    Trion Capt. Latanica

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    I am not quite understanding this.. so in order to qualify for the challenges system you basically need to never wash till level 100 or?
     
  16. CreamPuffDad
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    CreamPuffDad Timer

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    You can wash as you like. Even if you exceed threshold set at lvl 100, you may not have hit the threshold for 110.

    You only have to make sure there is no AP in your HP or MP pool.

    Once you pick this method however, you are permanently barred from hp or mp washing.

    Therefore, the breakdown can be understood as:

    The challenges let's you hp wash to PB with HB, and you do not need to stack int or wait for nx. Those that already have stacked int will need to reset their int but they can do that slowly while doing the challenges.

    Those that wish to hp wash as per the traditional method can do so, but they will not be able to benefit from the challenges.

    If you already have stacked up to like 300 int and have a bunch of nx stocked up, there's no need for you to do the challenges, just proceed as planned. The main beneficiaries of the challenges would be for new players or new accounts.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  17. zeroxlr
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    zeroxlr Windraider

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    Will beginners be able to get onto that list?

    Since beginners need about roughly 8k + HB by level 105 ish to be able to tank BF.

    Also... for beginner to reasonably self grind without leech it's about level 120 to 130 range.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. kokorohikaru
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    kokorohikaru Snail

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    No entiendo por que no optaron por reducir el precio del AP reset, que es la causa para empezar a lavar HP. hay personas que han juntado NX por mas de 3 años solo para tener 30K HP en un thief, archer o pirate.
    Bueno talvez de aqui a 3 años recien pueda tener mi bucanero con 30K de HP.
    Tal vez la reduccion del precio del AP reset pueda romper la economia de juego.
     
  19. Camazotz
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    Camazotz Chronos

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    To reiterate on the HP:
    Shads get 10k HP, enough to survive pretty much everything with meso guard
    Buccs get 19k HP, enough to survive pretty much everything
    Warriors get 22k HP, enough to survive pretty much everything
    Mages get 3.2k HP, enough to survive pretty much everything with magic guard
    Ranged classes get 12k HP, enough to survive.... HT and that's pretty much it. You can't survive any of the NT or NT2 bosses except Dunas1, nor Toad. Needing HB for PB is reasonable but it seems like ranged classes are getting screwed here. When I started reading this I was thinking ranged would be getting 15k at least.... This seems like an attempt to make Dark Knights more valuable for hyper body, but then why do buccs and shads get so much? Do you want hyper body to be a requirement but only for ranged attackers?
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. shck
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    shck Timer Retired Staff

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    With everything accounted for, range attackers should sit anywhere between high 13k anywhere up to 14.3k, with decent player skill you can survive in PB and Aufheben.
    But for fairness sake, the guaranteed HP gain for every class should be the minimum amount they need to survive bosses before HB. But still allow them to HP wash, however cap their max possible HP at the values shown in the table.

    HP wash is still optional:
    upload_2022-10-10_11-26-15.png
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Great Work Great Work x 1

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