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Important Boss Equips: Removing 'One-of-a-kind' (Feedback Thread)

Discussion in 'MapleLegends Announcements' started by Nise, Aug 13, 2020.

Would you prefer MapleLegends with:

Poll closed Aug 21, 2020.
  1. More than 'one-of-a-kind' but untradeable boss equip/gear? (eg. zakum helmet, scarlion hat)

    168 vote(s)
    50.8%
  2. Only 'one-of-a-kind' boss equip/gear? (eg. zakum helmet, scarlion hat)

    163 vote(s)
    49.2%
  1. Nise
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    Nise Game Moderator Staff Member Game Moderator

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    Hi MapleLegends players ^^

    Recently there's been a lot of concern over the economy as a whole and the role that bossing plays in the MapleLegends economy. After lots of discussion, we managed to come up with an interesting, yet, slightly radical idea that might solve some of our concerns. This isn't going to be implemented as of now, but it's an idea and we would appreciate the community to chime in.

    That is to remove the 'one-of-a-kind' label for boss equips (Mark of Naricain, Horned Tail Necklace, Zakum helmet, scarlion/targa hat), but still keeping them untradeable.

    Explanation: Our Goal
    Well... why would we want to do that? There's a few reasons, namely:

    1. Increase raw meso generation of non-mages
    If you can loot multiple drops, you can also NPC excess boss drops (which helps bring in raw mesos into the economy, and hopefully offset the pots used by the players too).​

    Code:
    For reference:
    Horntail Necklace = 300,000 mesos
    Zakum Helmet = 500,000 mesos
    Scarlion/Targa Hat = 600,000 mesos
    Auf Haven Circlet (not in game, but NT part 2 drop) = 1,000,000 mesos
    2. Increase the minimum profitability of boss runs
    Multiple drops could also lead to bosses becoming somewhat profitable without having to rely on lucky RNG (eg. Gene 20 drop) or having buyers. Rather than raising the ceiling of what you can earn, we would be raising the floor so that your dry runs don't feel as bad.
    3. Increase scrolling demand / positively affect the economy
    A trend we see with ageing MMORPGs is that the economy ends up in a lull. Things slow down and people have "finished" their gear and that there is a bigger cost-to-benefit ratio to try to improve their existing gear. If you have a 30 dex helmet, why would you want to throw it away and have to start scrolling all over again?

    If you can pick up multiple boss equips, it could lead to more players trying to scroll better equips. That raises the demand for scrolls, thereby promoting more inter-player spending, and a wider distribution of wealth.​

    Explanation: Our Concerns
    In theory it seems to solve a number of problems our player base has brought up before, but the idea is quite "radical". Some of our major concerns are:

    1. Departure from how boss runs were in Old School MapleStory
    It's such an integrated fact and principle of MapleStory that boss equips are 'one-of-a-kind' and that to reloot, you need to throw away your helmet. As such, the suggestion can be considered quite a drastic departure from the old school experience we all know and love.​

    2. "Accidentally" looting won't be limited to one drop anymore
    Previously, you could accidentally loot one helmet but if the 'one-of-a-kind' label disappears, a pet could easily vacuum up 3 or 5 helmets... While it's standard practice to check for pet loot, this is still a factor we should consider.
    3. Removes 'risk' and increases the possibility for 'perfected' boss equips
    Not having to drop your helmet removes the risk of scrolling better gear. It also means that it becomes realistically possible for people to try to 'perfect' their boss gear. The 'ease' of doing so might be a concern for some players as well.​

    What We Need From You
    MapleLegends balance changes aren't based solely on what the staff thinks. What makes it special is that it's a collective project by the whole community. Your suggestions, feedback, and personal experiences are what guides our decisions as staff. This time, we come to you with a suggestion and want to hear what YOU, our dedicated players, think.

    We'll first collect players' thoughts and initial feedback, so people can form a proper opinion in their heads. Later, we'll add a poll to the thread to see where the player base sits. Do note that the outcome of the poll doesn't dictate whether or not we implement the idea.

    NOTE: REMOVING 'ONE-OF-A-KIND' DOES NOT MEAN THEY WILL BE TRADEABLE.
     
    • Like x 18
    • Disagree x 7
    • Agree x 3
    • Informative x 2
    • Useful x 2
  2. Selquin
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    Selquin Wolfspider

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    I think concerns #1 and #2 are fairly minor points that for the most part can be brushed over. #3 is definitely going to be a significant change, time to panic buy chaos scrolls.

    EDIT: Props for pitching the idea first, a nice change of pace from recent updates
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Funny Funny x 1
  3. carebu
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    carebu Orange Mushroom

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    Sounds like a good change overall.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 5
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. Aeom
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    Aeom Slime

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    Its very late for me and I hope im not pepebraining this. The idea suggested doesnt seem too bad of an idea atm, and itll provide a stir for bossing and a plus in economy. As for the concerns, perhaps placing a limit cap for the one of a kind bossing item to minimize concerns 1-3?
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  5. Doll
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    Doll Slime

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    One-of-a-kind items are few. This is an item trait that keeps an already repetitive game slightly less repetitive and interesting. Removing the dilemma of ‘dropping’ to improve your gear makes the game seem easy and less satisfying.

    I think this is a concerning change that follows the same mindset the devs of original maplestory had, ultimately making the game too easy and less rewarding.

    The reward for a few mil more is not worth the risk of ruining what we love about old maplestory.

    I vote no to this change.
     
    • Agree x 20
    • Disagree x 12
    • Like x 1
    • Funny x 1
    • Informative x 1
  6. kingtaka23
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    kingtaka23 Orange Mushroom

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    Great idea. Please put this up to a poll.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 4
    • Like Like x 2
  7. postcard
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    postcard Selkie Jr.

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    why don't we just bring back mannequins auto aggro so i can farm them for raw mesos instead (i am not a mage)
     
    • Funny x 13
    • Like x 7
    • Agree x 7
    • Disagree x 1
    • Great Work x 1
  8. Sympatic
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    Sympatic Chronos

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    One of a kind items should stay as they are right now. Removing it just takes away the risk and doesn't really make it rewarding at all.
    It's not a bad idea, but I don't think it should be changed.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
  9. Kimberly
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    Kimberly Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    See this bit of the post

     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  10. aaronis
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    aaronis Slimy

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    I feel like adding like 1-2million ish mesos a boss run from raw drops won't really do much for the economy or for individual runners, since people will have to roll for the drops so on average all that'll happen is around half the run will have their potion money covered or lowered. On the other hand it'll make trying to get endgame scar helms,MoN's, and HTPs a lot easier for players which could be a good or bad thing depending on what people want for the server. I personally would try to get a better scar helm and MoN immediately if this change happened because mine right now are decent enough where trying to upgrade would cost possibly hundreds of millions of mesos, which is a pain for what could lead to a downgrade. If this change goes through I feel like zakum and targa helms are at a good price right now, but would suggest increasing the NPC of HTPs to go up to somewhere around a mil each, since it costs a lot more in potions for runners and 10-12 mans aren't uncommon, while zakum typically is only ran with 6 people and the runs are about a third as long as horntail runs.

    Since CWKPQ is in a good price right now with EXP and meso generation I feel like MoN's should stay one of a kind because (I haven't checked but the main post doesn't mention its NPC price) it doesn't sell for any mesos and it would purely just be for easier rescrolling which doesn't seem to be what the main post wants. Helmets are a lot less impactful on people's ranges, since they dont have any attack, so I dont see a problem with those if they're made to be not one of a kind, it wouldn't drastically make anything a lot easier. Same thing for Horntail Pendants since you're spending 100mil for around a 60% chance to have a chance at having some stats go up. Overall I feel like the change could be good if carefully implemented.
     
    • Agree Agree x 14
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  11. Lynx
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    Lynx Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

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    interesting, is it possible to make those items two-of-a-kind, instead of completely removing the cap? I think that kinda solves the pet sweep problem,
    and also keeps it harder to perfectly scroll a piece since you can't hoard them infinitely
    and also keeps the uniqueness of boss drops
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Creative Creative x 4
  12. diego1560
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    diego1560 Slime

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    My recommendation:
    Change the sale prices in the npc for the skillbooks. Example: NPC price for MW20: 240m instead of 1. In this way, prices will have a minimum in fm and there will not be such sudden drops that are the main cause of the problem.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 29
    • Funny Funny x 15
  13. diego1560
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    diego1560 Slime

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    other example: NPC price for ZAK helment 15m instead of 500k
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 23
    • Funny Funny x 17
  14. AioriaX
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    AioriaX Selkie Jr.

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    One of the reasons why the market is crap now is due to high supply but low demand. And due to this, merchandise you try to sell in FM goes for a crappy price which honestly just deters you from farming. The best way to earn now is by 5-6 leech but even that is getting saturated. Even skele and petri leech is bad due to saturation - because everyone is moving towards leech as a meso-making avenue when farming/hunting is just not rewarding enough.

    Demand for INT scrolls like cape and overalls decrease due to previous event releasing 65%s like rain.
    - reduces availability of INT-scroll-hunting as a meso-making avenue
    - OA INT 60%s used to be 6m and scrolling bathrobes used to profit alot
    - availability of scrolled bathrobes now are plenty, and prices of scrolls are less due to it

    Demand for 30% weapon scrolls like 2H sword, 1H sword, even claw and wands decrease due to lack of new players, but ease of drop from CWK bonus
    - even CFA30s used to only be farmable from nightghosts - don't really see anyone there anymore

    Demand for HTP and skillbooks are less due to lower number of new players needing it, and more players are easily able to horntail now
    - price of HTP + egg drops, supply of skillbooks plenty

    While it is not easy to tackle the part where new players are involved, we can tackle the supply.

    I once suggested the removal of Taos from CWKPQ as it just ruins the market of balanced furies as a whole - and hence black crystal ores too. We used to sell taos for easily 7-9mil due to the classic maplestory RNG exchange quest but now you could just join CWKPQ and yoink taos for free. No need for CWK-mob-etc hunting, and no need for exchange quest RNG.

    I personally think that despite allowing multiple loots of boss-equipments, it would not help much at all with the economy.
    Most of the boss equipments we have in the game are - Helmets and Pendants. (pretty much it).

    The only scrolling demand from allowing this is the increase in Helm scrolls and Chaos scrolls (which are already somewhat high demand low supply - not relevant to fixing the problem). This idea could possibly increase the number of buyers for these helms, but when so many players are able to sell the service (and providing the supply of these gears), it kinda negates the small increase in demand. On the other hand it may increase the demand of horntail pendants - and hence chaos scrolls. But the demand of chaos scrolls is somewhat in a good place now that prices are actually increasing. Further increasing the demand will probably not help at all with the market as a whole (ie. fixing something that wasn't broken).

    My suggestion:
    1. Reduce CWKPQ bonus 30% scrolls drop rate - CWKPQ as a whole is already such a rewarding PQ for its Pendant. Bonus stage should be as it says, a bonus and not a give-away. Getting these scrolls should not be as easy since it just an addition to what the PQ already provides - the Mark of Naricain. Once the population realise that these scrolls are not as easily attained, and supply decreases, it increases the market for these scrolls. Also possibly increases the incentive for scroll-hunting from mobs.

    2. Remove Taos from CWKPQ. Promotes more avenues for low level grind where you could also farm ETCs, try your luck with the exchange quest and maybe sell your taos for a higher value than it currently is. This suggestion may not be as feasibly now considering NeoTokyo materials are more easily attainable and MTK prices are actually dropping (invites more players to buy MTKs and bypass BalanceFuries) but it at least provides another avenue for farming. As a huge promotion of low level grinding spot - the exchange quests also provides raw mesos (750k from WR etc, 1.25m from Stormbreaker badges, 2.5m from Nightshadow badges, 1.75m from Firebrand badges, 3.5m from 25 of each)

    3. Reduce the time duration of bossing runs - making it harder = increases the value of its drops. This suggestion may come-off as a little elitist considering that high level players will benefit most and new players attempting to boss will be affected, but it could reduce the ease and availability of these boss gears - and increase the service market. Reducing the timer would also increase the market value of attack potions like apples/stews/stoppers - another avenue for meso-making.

    There are so many existing players now that we should not fear the decrease in drop rate - the higher amount of CWKPQ runs will cover for this. But reducing the availability will improve the marketability of scrolls and farming (instead of just leech leech leech).

    Just my suggestion. Feel free to debate if you disagree with my suggestions (im curious to know why too lol)
     
    • Disagree x 12
    • Agree x 5
    • Funny x 2
    • Like x 1
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  15. Aron
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    Aron Red Snail

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    While I like the suggestion, I see an issue with this for Scarlion and Targa helmets. Currently, you can have one DEX helm and one STR helm. Which also means that you can prevent picking up one of those by keeping a placeholder. For example, I'm a warrior and run Scar with a NL and a BM. Because they have a placeholder STR helm and I have a placeholder DEX helm, we can ensure that I don't pick up DEX helms which I don't want and they don't pick up STR helms which they don't want. If one-of-a-kind is removed from both, without any additional changes, you couldn't filter out DEX/STR helms anymore.

    I like this change, but if it were implemented, I would suggest adding a way to distinguish STR/DEX and LUK/INT Scar/Targa helms from eachother. Perhaps the most elegant way would be to give them slightly different colors. Different shades of orange/red for Scar and cream/purple for Targa.
     
    • Agree Agree x 15
  16. Sam_Vosh
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    Sam_Vosh Capt. Latanica Retired Staff

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    Removing the one-of-a-kind attribute to these items certainly will remove annoyance with the people intending to scroll those items. To me, it would also remove an attribute that feels quite out of place for Maplestory. As it is only for a few items. I think there's a distinct difference you could make between them. There is the necklaces/pendants and the helmets.

    Helmets
    The helmets will certainly benefit from the removal of one-of-a-kind attribute as they have a lot of slots to fail on. And it would off set a thing that I've personally experienced. For archers there is no distinction between wearing a Str or a Dex Scar helmet. Any job which actually uses their secondary stat would not notice a difference after the removal.
    I believe NL aim for Dex only, so their progress to perfect would become easier with the removal.

    Pendants
    MoN and HT necklace are different for two reasons. Many stats make them prime candidates for chaos scrolls and a low amount of slots makes their route to perfect different. You have to be lucky on your chaos scroll upping the desired stats. Whitescrolls have no impact on this. So I believe the route to perfect is easier if you have a pendant to fall back on.
    Thus removing one of a kind would make it easier.

    Alternative idea
    However, when reading the goals. You could cover 2 out of the 3 goals with simply making the bosses drop more mesos. For example, you could make them drop several millions of mesos instead? It rewards the entire party somewhat evenly and avoid the loot rolling/stealing problem. And this would not raise concerns about people reaching perfect status sooner with endgame gear.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Creative Creative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  17. yurain
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    yurain Capt. Latanica

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    If this is really on the main issue of creating meso for the runners, a simple way would be just dropping more meso bags or make each boss drop etc that can be sell for like 100k each or something. It is quite a bold and needless to remove "one-of-a-kind" tag for the boss equips. I remember there was a thread on this somewhere out there.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  18. Selquin
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    Selquin Wolfspider

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    Everyone is focusing too much on goals #1 and #2, but I #3 is definitely the most important. Realistically speaking, this change would not change the minimum profitability of runs now the amount of meso flowing in by too much. Zakum helms are already npced by runners when there is no buyer, and the total npc value of HT equips is already a couple mil per run. However if this change goes through, there will be much greater inventive for people to run zakum, scar, cwkpq and even HT, since they have a chance of improving their untradeble helms without having to drop anything.
     
  19. Bergboy
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    Bergboy Orange Mushroom

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    I love the suggestion being thrown out here since this is along the line of what I was pushing for in my suggestion thread

    I think people mostly covered the stimulation of the economy + difficulty of working on gear points as well as issues with MoN/CWK difficulty-profitability points that I wanted to say already so I'll just skip past those.

    Instead I want to present a more fringe suggestion that could go along with this potential change.

    So I'll just guess that there are already some people going "we royals now hyperinflation inc" as I type this post. So instead of just buffing non-mage meso generation, how about a redistribution of how raw mesos are added into the game? Slightly adjust the potency of MU down, or minorly reduce the base amount of mesos that mobs drop. A properly done fine-tuning of values in regards to this would make the staff proposed changes feel even better in regards to Bossing profitability and Non-mage mesos generation as the raw mesos generated from that would constitute a greater % of the raw mesos entering the game, while at the same time not severely impacting the economy as roughly the same amount of raw mesos are still entering the game as before.

    Taking extra thoughts or comments on this suggestion
    Obviously the people who grind 12 hours a day with their mules aren't going to like this post though
    [​IMG]
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  20. Eighty
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    Eighty Capt. Latanica

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    Currently, I feel like there is very very very little incentive to run scar and zak other than for helms for guild members or buyers.
    The whole point is to make bossing a somewhat a little more worthwhile.
    I personally don't know of anyone who runs zak just to earn mesos without a buyer other than for exp maybe.

    Also, like aaronis, mentioned, the improvement in damage will not be broken and it is STILL plenty difficult to achieve that 40+ dex helm.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

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