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Guide to efficiently leveling high base int chars with zero starting funding.

Discussion in 'Training' started by akashsky, Jan 10, 2019.

  1. OP
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Sure. Thats a good idea! I'll add a little spoiler at the start including who the guide is for.

    hmm. As for what level of base int this becomes more efficient varies from class to class. For some classes that are very trash in the early game (like gunslingers), the base int requirement is much, much lower than any other class.

    If you are also trying to train a mule character (like SI or SE mule), in addition to your main, this guide is more efficient even with 4 base int. This is because leeching two characters at the same time beats training 1 character individually very hard in terms of total exp.

    Also, funding plays a huge role. If you have very good funding, a 120 base int assassin is very much playable and can grind by itself.

    Anyways, to give you a rough estimate for your answer, if you are only planning on making 1 character (no fourth job buff mule), and want to wash it heavily without any starting funding, I think this guide becomes more efficient from 80 base int onwards.
     
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  2. OP
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    akashsky Horntail

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    I actually agree with this more than I disagree. I'm guilty as alyosha has claimed, as I admit I have told people to restart chars (especially when I've seen LUK mages) , and I do feel that it was wrong. It's important to also take into account people's goals before telling them to restart a char because they might not even need to. If they want to do every boss in the game (including toad), I think its fair to tell them they need to restart their ranged DPS char or do some ridiculous late HP washing like thugricthugric .

    Anyways, what people find fun is subjective. Maybe some people enjoy playing mages and leeching an attacker on the side? It may not be fun to most, but at the end of the day what I find fun and you find fun can be very, very different.

    I 100% agree with the toxicity around efficiency. We shouldn't really force our own opinions onto newer players, and should let them play the game how they want.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
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  3. Midnight
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    Midnight Skelegon

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    Shame on both of us for doing that in the past, but I don't think your guide is toxic when such a surprising amount of people hardcore HP wash and actually go through with it
     
  4. OP
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Yeah, it was definitely not my intention to come off how AlyoshaAlyosha interpreted my guide. I just wanted to help out some people with the things I learned attempting a hard core HP wash.
     
  5. Precel
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    Precel Zakum Retired Staff

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    That's pretty much TL;DR of what I'm going to say on this, but let's expand a bit.

    This analogy doesn't work well here. Nobody wants to get eaten by a shark, whereas a lot of new people on MapleLegends wonder about the most efficient way to HP wash with no fund. Your example has no value simply because nobody wants it. This guide is already useful for me since I can just link this to anyone with the question in mind, and I'm sure many others will find it useful in the future.

    akashskyakashsky in no way mentions that this is necessity. In fact, he mentions in the post that this is for dedicated player who wants to reach end game in the most efficient manner, and to ignore this post if you are not that person. Sure, it's grind fest with multiple mules and that will just feel like work, but that's what some people want to do. As much as you'd like to respect casual players, we also need to respect hardcore players, instead of calling that play style "toxic". Don't get me wrong, I believe everyone should play the character they want to play, and I've preached this in-game and on Discord. Still, there is no reason to talk down on this guide because your belief is that all hardcore guides don't belong at MapleLegends.


    Yes.

    EDIT: Also, I'd like to mention that this post can be used for players who are not hardcore but still wonder about HP washing with no fund, because it allows them to make informed decision.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
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  6. Jolly_Walker
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    Jolly_Walker Chronos

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    There is no point to efficiently level a hardcore washed ranged attacker imo. There are hurdles FAR bigger than leveling with high base int. I would say patience is the key to making a hardcore washed character.

    First, you need alot of mesos to get INT gear before you create your hardcore attacker and on top of that you need attacking gear. Then, theres the lack of AP resets if you power level your attacker. You can maybe get to level 15x in a couple months if you self leech obsessively, but where are you gonna get the 300+ AP resets to hp wash, not to mention another 150+ AP resets for resetting base int.

    Basically, you would end up with a useless high level attacking class bloodwashed, waiting for over a years worth of nx to get your stats back.

    On another note, questing is good exp during low levels for the attacker, you can use your mage to carry them through quests. Also, the hs mule should be able to leech the attacker at wraiths / jr wraiths easily.
     
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  7. Jolly_Walker
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    Jolly_Walker Chronos

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    Also to add on, I suggest that the i/l should be mp washed since we can multivote now or that they could make a hb mule. Pot costs is very high with low base mp spamming blizz
     
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  8. Luscious
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    Luscious Mr. Anchor

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    Hahaha, what? I caught you the other day in the FM telling a new player that they "must wash to 10-15k before hb to be able to HT". That is the *exact* toxic behavior that Akash and I agree with Alyosha on. Funny that you are now pontificating on this.

    Yeah now it is, only after Alyosha made their point. There's nothing wrong with this sort of guide as long as it's made clear who it's intended for.
     
  9. Precel
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    Precel Zakum Retired Staff

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    Ok, first, I said 10k is all you needed. No more than 15k if you wanted to be more comfortable. Second, I did not say must. I told him that he should not worry about HP washing at the time, and to play however he wanted. I was providing a context of a late game so he can decide what to do, and if anything I said HP washing is favorable for mostly bossing. You came in the middle of the conversation saying that 10k was an overestimate, and I agreed to that.

    EDIT: Please don't twist my words, especially if you don't know the full context.
     
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  10. Precel
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    Precel Zakum Retired Staff

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    Sorry to reply twice, but since you already reacted to my last reply, I figure you won't see my edit. Plus it's a different topic.

    I thought akashsky had that disclaimer before he edited in Alyosha's reply. If that's wrong, please disregard that point I made. Still good to have it now rather than never.
     
  11. OP
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    I disagree with this. If you don't have int equips you can just add extra base int to compensate for this.

    I have a corsair with 200 base int. I would hope that this is accepted as enough base int to hp wash such that no int gear is required. You are right about AP resets being an issue, and I won't ever be at full power until i get enough resets to put my INT back into dex or str.

    However, that doesn't mean my character is USELESS. Yes, it is weaker than most other attackers but not that much weaker. Here's my DPM with no attack pots or party buffs.
    Screen_Shot_2019-01-31_at_8.14.35_PM.png

    My gear is trash (10 att wg is literally my best piece of gear) and I am sure many players who are level 70 or below have better gear than me. Yet, I still do 2.17m dpm. I'm not too sure how far away this is from a normal unwashed attacker in terms of DPM, but I would like to think that with 2m DPM, i would at least contribute somewhat to a boss fight.

    Also, whenever I boss, I would take into consideration that I am weaker than the average person and as a result, would be willing to spend more on attack potions. If my teamates are using ciders, I would use heartstoppers. If they are using heartstoppers then I would use apples, if they are using apples, well then I would just apple too and get carried.

    screenshot.png

    Shown above is my DPM on heartstoppers. I agree with you that high base int chars are alot weaker, but they are certainly NOT useless.

    You also brought up some good points about mp washing or making an HB mule. I'll add them into the guide later on!
     

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  12. ColouredNote
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    ColouredNote Pink Teddy

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    I take my hat off to you, sir. But don't corsairs need less HP washing since they have the boat? I've been thinking of making my archer with 60 base INT, or just playing without washing and remake it later while leeching to 4th job and putting all my ap in INT. Not that I like the thought of remaking and doing it all over again.

    But kudos to you all the same.
     
  13. Selquin
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    Selquin Headless Horseman

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    I assure you that 60 base int is more than enough, and if easily playable on an archer. With 60 base int and pretty budget int equips, my BM has more than enough HP for all the relevant bosses and is able to comfortably take 2hits from HT with HB (which is extremely helpful btw). I would say 7k hp is more than enough to comfortably HT, and if you take into account the ellin/t10 rings, this really isn't that hard.
     
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  14. OP
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Sairs do need less hp washing in total number of ap resets, but that's cause their base hp gain is slightly higher than other ranged classes.

    However , in terms of extra mp required, they need the most since they use 16 mp per wash instead of 12. Boat doesn't really play a factor since you can lessen damage to it by dismounting or not healing to full hp.

    Whether 60 base int is enough depends on what your goals are and how strong your int gear is.

    One thing to note is that to comfortably horntail, you need ~10k hp after hyperbody. This comes out to like around 6000 hp after hp gears like rings and pet equips.

    You can probably achieve this with 60 base int and cheap int gears, but I don't think it would be enough to get you through neo tokyo or toad (unless you've got insane int gears).
     
  15. Jolly_Walker
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    Jolly_Walker Chronos

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    That dpm is not good honestly, especially since you're a sair free hitting (which has higher dps than NL free hitting). Your dpm will be much much lower at bosses since they have higher armor and it will also be alot lower since you cant freely hit most bosses. Not trying to be rude but if your sair went to zak in a 6 man squad, it is essentially a 5 man run.

    Also to add on, getting INT gear saves you time (alot of time) cause you don't need as much base int which means the number of days needed to complete your wash is lowered significantly. My opinion would be that when making a washed character spending mesos on INT gear is more efficient than spending it on leech.
     
  16. OP
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    akashsky Horntail

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    You can't really say that without having an unwashed NL's DPM for comparison.

    Maybe it would be a 5.5 man run, but to say it would be 5 is pretty much saying my sair would contribute nothing to the boss run, which I find hard to believe. I'm also using a maple weapon instead of a concerto / revolver, don't have a zhelm or decent pendant, and am currently using a 10 att wg as my most expensive equipment.

    You are certainly correct my dpm isn't good, but I think once I'm fully geared my DPM would be at least what is shown in the screen shots on bosses in practice.

    Well the other way you could think about it is putting base int saves you the mesos you need to spent on int gear, which lets you get started sooner. Sure, it takes more AP resets than if you have int gear, but that doesn't cost you mesos, just time. And as i hope I have shown, if you get to a high level, characters are still playable even with lots of base int.
     
  17. Motto
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    Might I ask of you when you started pumping that INT?
    And if that INT is enough to get to ~6.4k HP ( give or take ) in a plausible amount of time as per lvl? What lvl would it be plausible to get ~6k hp?
    I'm thinking of creating a Corsair, as it's my beloved class, but I'm always unsure about how much INT and how I should be going about managing it.

    I already have a 50k NX bank on an account, and slowly piling up more to get ready to make the big char.
    The problem stands at how much difficult it can be, given that I like playing a char, not getting leeched 24/7 from my I/L ( if it will ever get to 4th job )
     
  18. OP
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    akashsky Horntail

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    I started pumping my base int from the very beginning, as soon as I made my char i went for 20 dex (for job adv) and then pumped only int until i got to 200.

    I think if you are willing to invest a serious amount of time into playing your corsair (that is getting tier t10 ring, ellin ring, AND pet hp equips, and MoN), you won't need much base int at all.

    I'm not too sure how much HP u can get from pet equips, but I looks like each 30% scroll gives ~50 hp. So i don't think its unreasonable to have 3 pets with 3 pet equips that each give 100 hp (so 300 hp total from it).

    From the above equips alone you get like 1.7k hp. A corsair normally has 4188 hp by 155, so you only need to get 512 hp by washing, which comes to 464 extra mana.

    Take into account that you naturally get excess mana from leveling, you only need to get 270 extra.

    That's like 20 int total. So I'd reccomend to get ~16 int from equips starting at like level 10 (which isn't TOO difficult if u can find a decent scrolled int HAT + wand).

    Overall you have a very reasonable goal that you can achieve without much investment into washing upfront. However, you will have to invest a lot into playing your character. T10 ring is harder to get imo than actually preparing for a wash.
     
  19. Motto
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    So I'm watching another forum post, with a calculator for HP Washing, and this seems that at lvl 120, with 200 INT as a slinger you can get doable ~5.8k hp at lvl 120 ( clean + washed )
    I'd say surely, with a tier 5 ring + ellin + it's already a good +600
    bumping you to ~6.4k hp, is that a good enough hp range at lvl 120 or is it still not good enough?
    As I'm not aiming for HT, but Zakum, Scar, Targa, CWKPQ, Toad ( Maybe? )

    Calculator used with this information put inside :
    [​IMG]

    Here's the source :
    https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/advanced-hp-wash-calculator-v0-41.16508/
     
  20. OP
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Are you trying to do zakum/scar where you can take 2 hits without dying?

    Are you trying to do targa with hyperbody or without?

    I'm not too sure if you want to build a corsair for toad, since that requires like 200 base int and MP washes or insane int gear.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019

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