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Gach hoarders are ruining your ws prices!

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by mjk, Nov 25, 2021.

  1. zeroxlr
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    zeroxlr Windraider

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    Okay I'm ready lol.


    Gacha pulled Items have no impact on the Free Market.
    People who hold onto gachapon should be allowed to use it however they please, since they're not Direct Market Manipulators.
    • If gacha is changed to expire or have lower stack sizes, this is directly punishing the entire normal ML population for the bad actions of those people whom buy out all the HOT items in the FM
    • Indirect hoarding of normal people does not drive up the prices in FM, since the population of the normal people with less than 1B mesos in net worth are unable to change the FM at all.
    WS/CS Hoarders and Direct Market Manipulators changes the prices of Hot/Gacha Items regardless of the amount that is put onto the market.
    • Max Mesos per character = 2B mesos, there a those on the server with maxed out banks and +1500 in WS total on the server, that's not including CS hoarding.

    Those of the WS/CS hoarders with their net worth of +5 to +10B mesos, uses Owl Mule accounts to buy out entire stocks and artificially drive up the Free Market.
    • Free Market means, a market without controls/regulations.

    Whenever someone grinds/farms/bosses to acquire Scrolls that are also gacha scrolls, if it's a HOT item, then those Market Manipulators will buy it up at a fraction of their total net worth.
    • Inflation of HOT items occurs when there's perceived to be less items in circulation than there actually are.
    • Once prices of HOT items are inflated to a goal amount, those Market Manipulators start selling again at the new inflated prices.
    Market Manipulation by means of price inflations on Gacha Equips works the same way. Since the list on HOT equips are short, and can be bought out in mass.
    • 100m is nothing compared to people with 2B mesos + 20 to 30 WS/CS in their Inventories.
    • To them, a high priced HOT item is only just another way to store mesos
    Hot items that are affected by direct manipulators takes 6-7 months of IRL time to restabilize in the FM, or it never will.

    A steady flow of HOT/Gacha Items are not enough to offset the amount of mesos those Market Manipulators own.

    These Market Manipulators use WS/CS as currency, which directly ties into how they also use HOT/Gacha items as currency too.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In addition. If gacha expiry + low stacks is activated...

    Those Market Manipulators would only need 48 USE/Equip slots x 11 characters
    • 11 Gacha HOT Item Storage Mules are all the market manipulators need to keep using their gacha anyways, and stock up on HOT items to use as currency anyways.
    Nothing achieved if all it does is hurt the general ML population, while those Market Manipulators use a different meta method to hoard more.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    A suggestion would be:

    Have NPCs sell all Hot Items to create a meso sink, and give direct control of prices to the Staff.
    • This way, the Staff can directly stop the blatant market manipulators and their attempts to use Hot Items as new currency after they reach a max character balance of 2B mesos.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Normal people of the general ML population are like me who just like to grind/farm/boss to just enjoy the game, NOT the FM:

    We get lucky drops, and just want to pass time and forget about all horrible IRL things.

    When life sucks on a bad day... maybe we'll try to pull our stacks of gachas and Pray to RNGesus for a lucky drop and give us something to be happy about.
    • none of the normal ML players have enough net worth of mesos + vote cash for Use/Equip slots to hoard HOT items anyways.

    We dont want to worry about FM stuff, since it's manipulated very heavily by people who buy out all the HOT items.

    Why worry about how to price the HOT items just right with owlrepo.com or some other FM tool/app? When we can just play the game?


    Basically.... make everyone suffer with gacha expiry + low stacks ?

    ...just to stick-it to those few people that actually manipulate the market ?
     
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  2. Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

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    So many I keep forgetting
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    Honestly I'm on Mageor's side here.

    Let's say we compare a hoarder H vs a non-hoarder NH.
    NH would exchange his gach tickets immediately or shortly after obtaining.
    H would keep them until whatever threshold they select.

    Let's say t0 is when they start collecting gach tickets, tn is when H reaches their threshold and exchanges.

    Let's also assume H and NH farm an equal number of gach per day.

    If we look at the timeframe between t0 and tn, there is no real difference between the amount of gach rewards brought into the economy between H and NH. It only becomes a problem when the threshold set by H is high enough for the market to significantly change in the meantime.

    The number of significant price changes to CS/WS is very limited and each of them can be at least partially correlated with external factors such as notable in-/decreases in player count.

    Based on this, I think we can honestly conclude that gach hoarding (unless done to an extreme) does not cause noteworthy impact on the market.
     
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  3. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    Is there any evidence to actually suggest any of that is the case or is it just a constructed interpretation of what people do? Because of the actual rich folks I know only one of them ever engaged in market manipulation and the last time he did it was probably in 2019. But let's just say you know what you're talking about.
     
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  4. Mageor
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    Mageor Mr. Anchor

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    Got bored, so decided to do some owling. Not exactly sure which gacha locked items were referring to in OP. But in the images below, a majority of these are farmable through mobs and obtainable through gacha.

    NOTE** there's nothing wrong with hoarding, people can do what they want with the things they have.

    Owled Server Time 2021/11/27 12AM. A few details from these screenshots that I noticed:

    1. All these scrolls seems to have an endless supply.
    2. There are people who own a lot of a certain scrolls.
    3. Certain scrolls priced way over their current market price.












     
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  5. zeroxlr
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    zeroxlr Windraider

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    i understand that as you are a retired staff that maybe you have some more insight on the topic of Market Manipulation, that has occurred

    ...and may still occur, by other's that are not yet caught.


    upload_2021-11-26_16-51-20.png

    I thought you'd have more class. I don't understand why you're mocking and harassing me with:
    by requoting what i said earlier:
    In my defense, I had already deleted my previous 4-5 paragraph comment, although the OP still decided to call me out, and misquoted me.

    also it was night time for me, so i had to sleep.

    so please stop attacking me.

    i originally... thought you were a good person...
     
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  6. Snork
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    Snork Capt. Latanica

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    I don't think removing stackable tickets will increase supply enough to prevent what these people are doing. Seems to me gacha drop rate needs to be tuned based on active players and currently it is tuned too low.
    But I'm just a dumb noob who never took econ class

    I also demand a dark scroll npc provided by Great Leader Kimmy Jong-Un of the ML proletariat. COYS have already set things in motion and we WILL RISE UP and defeat the 1%

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    I love people who use Bakamule as evidence when he hasn't bought out any scrolls since like 2019, something abundantly clear to anyone who talks to the guy, so using him really makes a terrible point about market manipulation in general. It's a very longterm hold with no real guarantee of a payout, if the market doesn't do what you want it to do you're stuck with a load of relatively illiquid scrolls or goods, but that's what you have to sign up for if you want to control any part of the market. Weapon 30's crashed hard with CWKPQ coming out, with people proclaiming the end of Bakamule(Then again he didn't even mind that much) with billions lost in hoarding, yet he just continued to hold over the years.

    He's probably still one of the few merch stories that ended successfully, most of the rest seem to crash and burn xd
     
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  8. Mageor
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    Mageor Mr. Anchor

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    I think you misunderstand my intention o.o.
    1. I only started playing since 2020, so I was not there if he had bought out the market.
    2. Like I said in my previous post, there's nothing wrong with keeping high valued scrolls.

    The purpose of the post was to point out that there are enough high valued scrolls in the market, despite people hoarding Gacha as the OP mentioned. So there are no problem with supply, which I believe also applies to White Scrolls and Chaos Scrolls.

    I believe there's a difference between the following two scenarios:
    1. There are not enough supply
    2. Things are too expensive

    In Scenario #1: There are simply not enough resource to go around for everyone, therefore, prices are high or resources run out quickly.

    In Scenario #2: There are enough supply for a certain item, but for some reason, they are priced above what you believe the value of them to be.

    From what I'm understanding from OP, he was pointing out that there are not enough supply on the market, thus causing prices to soar.
     
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  9. OP
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    mjk
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    mjk Master Chronos

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    Maybe I could have been more clear in my original post. I am not claiming that gach locked items are overly scarce and impossible to find on the server.
    As seen with your owls that is clearly not the case.

    The issue being tackled is indeed scenario 2.

    In a free market, the price of an item is based on the fundamental economic principles of supply and demand.
    The only way a price of an item can decrease is if either demand decreases or supply increases.
    While it is possible for staff to indirectly control the demand for items it is much easier to control the supply.
    As seen in the chart below an increase in supply leads to a decrease in price.

    upload_2021-11-26_18-48-4.png
     
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  10. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Seems there’s a decent number of voices against making gach expiring, but what if we look at it another way? Rather than tunneling into making hoarding gach undesirable, what might be some ways to make spending gach desirable? :O
     
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  11. Selquin
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    Selquin Headless Horseman

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    An official statement on the lines of ,
    "we will never change ws/cs rates in gachapon"
    would probably be a good start.
     
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  12. MrPresident
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    MrPresident Capt. Latanica

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    I still think most of gach production should be in bossing which would help with hoarding because hosts have to use the tickets to pay out splits. If we’re guna keep the current system where mobs drop all the tickets then I probably wouldn’t spend them unless there’s some NPC shop where you can trade in 20 tickets for a gfa 30 or something along those lines. I just really dislike dealing with all the garbage and having to sell a bunch of random stuff to get the most value out of gach.
     
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  13. Soniii
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    Soniii Mixed Golem

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    apply for balance team brothern. make maple legends great again :cool:

    we need eiji back on the roster
     
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  14. Snork
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    Snork Capt. Latanica

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    If you really wanna make people gacha, make it part of the true endgame by adding event cosmetic coupons and a ridiculously rare and untradeable chair to the reward table.
     
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  15. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    What if we allowed for x amount of common gach or y amount of rare gach to be exchanged for guaranteed legendary pulls (with purple capes removed). I wonder if that would be enough to bridge value gap between the low end gacha pulls and the upper end legendaries.
     
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  16. zeroxlr
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    zeroxlr Windraider

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    :heartbeat::heartbeat:

    Wow! Yes please! :heartbeat:

    It would be so great to have better incentives to use gacha, and put more items into the supply of FM!

    I’m always dreading the amounts of trash I’d have to sort after using the gachas
    - or worrying about whether or not I have enough Equip/Use slots open to carry it all

    Would be so great for me to use a set # of rare and or common gachas to get guaranteed pulls!

    I’d totally use a big stack on guaranteed pulls.
    - maybe 1 stack common = 1 legendary?
    - maybe 50 rares = 1 legendary?
     
  17. Nightz
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    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    If you'd use your gacha whenever you're done training for the day or something you wouldn't have this problem. So that already is some incentive to just use them whenever you can instead of stacking up.

    I like creative ideas as such but by eliminating a part of the RNG you possibly put even more weight to farming gachapons (more mages more gacha) perhaps if ideas like these go along with something along the lines of gachapons dropping from bosses you can create a 2 birds 1 stone situation. Needs proper thought and numbers though
     
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  18. Jaewonnie
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    Jaewonnie Capt. Latanica

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    make chance of legendary pull inversely proportional to number of gach xd
     
  19. Loug
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    Loug Horny Mushroom

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    That's pretty much why I have over 1k gack on my bishop/bucc currently, my 905 and 300 gach runs were so bad that I simply prefer to pretend they don't exist and slowly make the money I need for my gear upgrades by farming ToT or self leeching my intlords, also even if I were to use those tickets it wouldn't affect the market at all since I'd just throw everything on my storage mules and forget about it for 6 months or so.
     
  20. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    that decreases supply of all scrolls not legendary - which will probably end up saddling the bottom 99% with increased costs & directly lead to more unsubstantiated blame at the top.
     
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