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Accepted & Implemented Reduce CWK Signs to One Per Job

Discussion in 'Accepted' started by Pundit, Apr 11, 2021.

  1. Feeed
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    Feeed Mr. Anchor

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    2:22 PM
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    Shads/Buccs have been pretty key in our 6 man runs with a weaker SE- we've specifically smega'd for them. Bucc/Shad helps range on Mage, then hops over to help on Cleave once she goes down. Both sides finish at the same time :D
     
  2. Shmoo
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    Shmoo Horny Mushroom

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    Cwkpq feels like the only thing seriously gated by having mules and it really makes no sense. It makes runs arbitrarily annoying to the point where people buy and sell signs for this. I definitely agree with this idea and making everyone do the prequest is a fair tradeoff. Only possible negative consequence I foresee is that that scrolls that drop from the bonus room will probably drop in price because of more runs. But the benefits just outweigh the cons here by a lot.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. OP
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    Pundit
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    Pundit Pink Teddy

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    Glad that there's a lot of support for this :)

    One thing that occurs to me about requiring the prequest for everyone is that any MoN buyer would have to do it too, so we make getting a MoN more difficult by including that tradeoff. I don't come down one way or the other on whether that's worth it, but wanted to mention it.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. yurain
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    yurain Windraider

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    Another actual QoL improvement like the HT mark of squad suggestion that most likely not going to happen (idk, dont quote me on this)

    Currently it is basically a mule PQ, and if you dont have like 2-3 signs, good luck getting invited to a < 6man run.
    This basically force every 15X onwards player to make mules after mules for signs, if not you are basically dead weight despite whatever damage you do.

    If you think the diffculty would then be too easy, then the min level for entering the PQ can be like lv110.
    This is the level for wearing the MoN anyway, so MoN buyers probably won't be affected at all.

    I do think the eiji's suggestion for all members to complete the keystone quest would be too harsh. That quest definitely would take you some good amount of time to complete it, and it will gatekeep those low level 2 party/guild/ally runs that just want to do cwk for fun. Maybe it can be changed that all members require 10 hearts or something to enter each time, instead of just the host, similiar to how you need some etc for boss like zak/rav/papu etc....
     
  5. KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    8:22 PM
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    This looks like a meme reply but anyways:
    1-Both pirate jobs are a bit lacking at lower levels due to them needing more skill points than other jobs to perform optimally
    2-MM at a lower level does more damage than BM thanks to Snipe
    3-Paladin is a meme class since it only has the advantage on meme bosses like NT (bosses that resemble a bag of Lays due to them having more air than actual product inside) and Scarlion and Targa (doesn't really matter you do a lot of damage to them, half of the time you just do 1 dmg)
    4-Totally no one would ever mule on this server, right?
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Useful Useful x 1
  6. FatSloth
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    FatSloth Windraider Retired Staff

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    I was being quite genuine, when i first started doing cwk the majority of my invites were simply to have a second pirate sign and to not have to mule si during the run.

    Obviously there are positives to removing the sign limitation on cwk but I wanted to point out what I see as the most glaring flaw.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    11:22 AM
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    Accessibility doesn't always create a better atmosphere. There's some negatives that come from opening up things further, even just an inch at a time. Ending vote abuse rules made washing significantly easier, enough that it's become a massive feast or famine with any class pushing to 30k hp and throwing the entire balance of the game out of whack. Shaolin doubled end-game exp for most folks, leading to an entire generation of players being able to kill Horntail with ease, to the point that it's become a waste of time if you're after anything other than exp.

    It's also rather interesting to hear folks say NT is trash, and no doubt it would be if you're just doing it solo. Bring along 5 coin mules and your opinion of that would probably change. Is it a good system? I can't really say, but it keeps coin services profitable to sellers, as muling is a barrier to entry that keeps content in the game profitable. Content slowly gets more worse the more open it becomes, until you eventually just have the modern exp dragon with worse drops than Ravana.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  8. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    What are the prospects of a poverty pq thread?
     
  9. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Cwkpq is already poverty PQ.

    upload_2021-4-16_20-56-54.png
     
  10. KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    Both pirate jobs are a bit uncommon (specially corsair) that's why perhaps ppl only see them as sign-ups but both can work in CWKPQ quite well sair being pretty good at 1vs1 damage and bucc helping the cleavers with SI and doing decent damage and if you need a single target damage dealer you can ask them to do the mage. Just... well like anything in this server, just multiclient. I'm the one filling the pirate role on all my CWKPQs with both my buccs, and sadly if you remove multiclienting forcing 10 people to do the PQ the benefit of doing the PQ would be highly decreased and the server would have yet another reason to ignore a portion of content to just go farm mesos or sell leech.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    When comes to this specific case I wouldn't mind since lets be honest, this is multiclient to win and this change wouldn't change a thing.

    Washing is just a bad exploit that was allowed to be exploited back then cos it brought profits and welp if you want a cap HP NL back then you would have to spend so much money you better just buy a second-hand car. Here washing is just a matter of waiting or farming events. This issue was fixed later on making washing completely useless and making jobs that were ment to be tanky have skills that made them actually tanky: damage reduction skills, passive HP recovery, ways to heal themselves by doing damage, skills that increased the HP not by lv up but by % (all skills that get you more HP work more like HP than gain extra HP if you use ap and on level up). As it is in now, washing completely throws away balance, a 30k range class will be on most cases better than a 30k melee class, damn if you think about it a 30k HP NL would tank better seduces than a 30k HP Paladin due to the avoid, even without cap HP they do far better since with good luck you can just yolo the 1/1 and not get hit if you get sed. Anyway washing is too ingrained in this game to be removed and lets say endgame bosses pack quite a punch, especially PB and NT, even HT with all the buff it you better just wash, since the beginning HT has gained: 2 extra seduces per arm, 2mass seduces when low HP on top of the regular seduces, the wings now buff the entire body making them do more damage. I don't know if this has a fix but oh well.

    NT is one of the victims of how the game is balanced and I don't know if there is an actual fix for this. NT is balanced to be a trash place unless you multiclient and perhaps if you solo too. I solo Vergamot too in like 40 mins and yet I mostly get air. Yes I get it we need to balance so is hard to get (hard as in time-consuming, like is hard to make progress on a phone game) but all is balanced with the optimal way in mind: multiclienting so like in NT and well pretty much everywhere if you don't you barely get anything.
    As it is now you gotta have a million mages with mules and loot dudes to make a good profit, multiclient on CWKPQ to go on, multiclient to get more from NT, we all tend to go to do the optimal thing, that's how ppl work, achieve more with the least effort or the fastest way but what if you don't want to play this way? what if you are more casual? you want to play a class cos is fun or just play one character at a time and perhaps the only mule if is strictly necessary? then you are out of luck because this game has been balanced having in mind that the optimal play will be done and if you don't then your progress will be far slower.

    After over 6 years playing this server I feel like I don't want to play anymore cos of how things have been going, all I want to do is to log perhaps kill some bosses then go off, I don't to grind for hours anymore I just want to have fun with friends but all I get is: wanna go HT? o right do this shitty mission for the 1000th time as if I was a child that needs to do chores before having fun and hey gotta do two runs or all that time wasted waiting for a dragon to appear will be wasted. Bosses make you mesos yeah but is all down to luck and is hard to even finish my knuckle let alone get a timeless one.... I can't progress, the fun part of the game gets me barely anything, I don't want to drag the ppl that farm to the mud and make them get nothing for their efforts either but well, the optimal way will always be the best and if you don't play like that your progress will get haulted.

    Well this reply is already long enough and I always end up ranting about how bitter feels to play ML lately, is weird cos other games I played and I stopped playing cos I don't feel like playing I never ended with this bitter feeling of woah would be cool to play but I don't want to cause the game doesn't give me any satisfaction or reason to play. I won't quit as in never come back butt damn I wish an update came and was like, damn now I can have fun and get something in the game for doing it.
     
    • Like Like x 11
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  12. Lirbo
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    Lirbo Slimy

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    9:22 PM
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    The PQ is originally intended for 2 parties and it's from LV 90 for a reason. However, considering the actual way this PQ is being played I believe this suggestion can actually be a good idea. It may also encourage lower levels (such as 130) who don't have the mules/connections to get all of the signs, and they might try to run 8~9 man with apples.

    I think this suggestion can really add up with the drawback Eiji suggested where u must have the Keystone.
     
  13. Caenyss
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    Caenyss Capt. Latanica

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    Please this, I want to join CWKPQ, but since I don't have any signs I have very few chances.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  14. jesscapades
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    jesscapades Pac Pinky

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    genuine non-toxic question: what does it mean when a thread never gets responded to or addressed? is it rejected?
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  15. Annolis
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    Annolis Skelegon

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    From my experience, it means that it isn't pressing enough to take a ruling on it, but at the same time it's an idea that is worth considering. Some suggestions are rejected outright on their face because it's simply not going to happen. Other ideas need to be massaged a bit or run through the community to get a feeling of how players would react. They're effectively on the table for discussion, but there are no promises that they will ever get any attention from the Admins beyond this. The reasons are that the Admins may be too busy with higher priority items, planning and coding events, and other character/account related issues. Changes such as these can have massive effects on the gameplay that casual players may have never considered.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    There's a bunch of reasons why a thread might not get an official response, lemme try listing some major ones I can think of from the top of my head (not exhaustive):
    • Not discussed yet due to availability issues (staff are people too and weekends are slower paced)
    • Not discussed yet due to other issues having higher priority (or other topics are currently being discussed)
    • In the process of being discussed, hence no official response can be released
    • Was already being discussed prior to the suggestion thread
    • Decision is made, but diverged from the suggestion (aka becomes slightly or massively different from what was originally proposed)
    • Discussions have finished from the balancing side, but needs confirmation from the developer side
      • If developers need to be involved in the project, a final decision can be held up due to issues of availability & prioritization
    • Discussion on the suggestion relates to another project in the works, and if staff were to explain why they came to said decision they would need to reveal details related to the other project
      • The decision could be a flat out reject, alteration of the original proposal, or just a "wait and see"
      • (Eg) All the WS/bossing revamp suggestions on the forums, when we had alternative ideas in the works like the Prestigious Coin idea that we wanted to finish up the proposal for & release to the community first before we accepted/explored other ideas
    Hope that answers your question~
     
    • Informative Informative x 8
  17. Precel
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    Precel Zakum Retired Staff

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    I would come into suggestions forum without expecting a staff response - most don't get any. If a thread is left alone without a staff intervention, it's still being considered.
     
  18. OP
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    Pundit
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    Pundit Pink Teddy

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    Now with prestigious coins implemented in every end-game bossing situation except CWK, the crazy logistics of organizing this PQ threaten to make it even more irrelevant. Why would I put in the effort of finding all these signs when I can just trio Krex? The time for change is now!
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

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    So many I keep forgetting
    0
    Just add coins to cwk
     
    • Agree Agree x 4

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